Author Topic: cleaning problem  (Read 14991 times)

clevefails

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cleaning problem
« on: February 02, 2017, 06:26:44 PM »
Good mourning,I just received my new flintlock,picks coming this weekend.this past weekend I fired 20 rounds using tow mink oil as patch lube,cleaned well.next day fired 20 rounds with blue thunder bp solvent for patch lube,cleaned and stored.last night just to check for rust I ran a patch down and it came out dirty,I ran a brush thru several times and wet patches and still black coming out.Scrubed again with brush and more black.It looks like I coated the barrel with black plastic.going to scrub more tonight.What could cause this?

Offline sqrldog

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 06:33:39 PM »
First question what solution are you cleaning with and next question jag and cleaning patch or worm and tow?

Offline Mauser06

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2017, 08:06:42 PM »
Did you run water through the barrel?   Or just patches with solvent???



Sounds like it wasn't cleaned to begin with.    You need to take it clear to clean metal. You should be able to run a patch down and it comes out perfectly clean....Then grease/oil and put her away. 


Never heard of the blue thunder stuff...Can't help there.   



Get it cleaned ASAP so it doesn't rust.

Offline Daryl

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2017, 08:14:17 PM »
We buy a product that is called "Blue Thunder" and it is -35 winter windshield washer fluid. We use it as a cold (and warm) weather patch lube, with some Neetsfoot oil added.  There is no need for any other additive, nor is the oil needed. That just make sit evapourate more slowly in the summer heat.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

clevefails

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2017, 08:17:23 PM »
Thanks,I used a jag and patches with the Blue Thunder BP Solvent until they where clean,then patch with WD-40,then dry patches followed by patch with C.L.P.,I will use water for sure next time,still have more scrubbing tonight,cant see why it got so hard.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2017, 08:37:39 PM »
According to people more in the know on this forum after you get it clean you might still see traces of black on clean patches. If I understand this right the traces of black are carbon deposits and not harmful corrosive. I think Mad Monk would be the one to explain this better. In any case get it clean with water,dry the bore as best you can with clean dry patches and give it a good liberal dose of WD40 then a clean dry patch to get the excess WD40 mopped up.

Offline hanshi

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2017, 08:38:03 PM »
Welcome to the forum, clevefails.  Plain water is what you should clean the bore and lock with since it dissolves black powder fouling.  You can also patch the bore a time or two with a cleaning patch cut from a thin ScotchBrite pad.  Your final dry patches might come out a tiny bit "grayish"; but if you've cleaned as above it's okay.  After drying the bore I swab the bore with WD40.  When you swab out the WD40 you'll usually find a very small amount of fouling or staining; WD40 really pulls that stuff off the bore steel.  Use alcohol to remove the WD40, dry, and apply a good rust preventative.  I use Barricade or Break-Free CLP.  Check the following day and frequently thereafter.
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clevefails

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2017, 09:01:50 PM »
Thanks,
Last night I scrubbed it with a wire brush several times, then patches with WD-40 several times till a clean patch came out, then again with wire brush and patches again more black coming out.done this several times,and still it had black in it.I will clean again tonight and see what happens.

Offline Frank

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2017, 09:53:48 PM »
Stop using the wire brush. That may be the source of the black stuff you keep getting.

clevefails

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2017, 11:36:38 PM »
Thanks Everyone,

More research I found that if you leave oil in your barrel shooting the black powder will turn to a tar like substance.This must be what happened.I did have oil in the barrel before I shot.Now best way to remove the tar.

I will use a good water flush from now on.
Thank You All

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2017, 11:38:58 PM »
Thanks,
Last night I scrubbed it with a wire brush several times, then patches with WD-40 several times till a clean patch came out, then again with wire brush and patches again more black coming out.done this several times,and still it had black in it.I will clean again tonight and see what happens.

Your "Blue Thunder" windshield washer fluid is fine for what you are using it for as it is mostly water with methanol and a blue dye added. Depending on what steel your barrel is made of that could be your problem which is a non-issue - let me explain: If your barrel is made out of AISI 12L14 Carbon Steel  it has lead in it and depending on it's content it could be what is giving you that gray'black look on your patches. AISI 12L14 Carbon Steel can contain from 0.15% to 0.35% lead <http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6604> the more you rub it the more gray/black your patch will be especially when using certian solvents. Clean thoroughly, oil well with a good rust preventive and check for rust - don't sweat the gray/black look.
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline Daryl

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2017, 08:50:14 AM »
Grey streaks I usually get AFTER I clean and dry the bore- the last 'clean' patches when the bore is dry, have grey streaks. If you set these patches down to dry completely, they will rust. It is not fouling, but microscopic steel or iron molecules. The softer the steel, as in 12L14- the more 'grey' steel you will 'pull' from the bore.

When I flush - yes - FLUSH my barrel (off the gun) with WD40, then patch that out, the patches are completely WHITE - no fouling left in the bore. 

As long as there is any vestige of that oil in the bore, continued patching will show clean patches - no streaks until it is all removed. If I run 4 or 5 dry flannelette patches through the bore to completely remove the oil - the last patch will again show grey streaks, ie: molecules of steel or iron I am 'drawing' from the bore.

That patch will show red rust the next day. I then re-lube the bore with WD40 - in the climate where I live - the bore will not rust due to the humidity in the air - your area might require you to use a rust preventative BETTER than WD40.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline thecapgunkid

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2017, 02:10:52 PM »
See if you can borrow a retired Drill Instructor from Parris Island.   Maybe a Guy like Gunny.   Have him stand in back of you while you clean.  It'll solve all your problems and it won't matter what solvent you are using.

Just Kidding

Send the barrel to Bobby Hoyt and go watch The Big Sky for a while.  It'll come back looking like a mirror inside but you may need bigger bullets next time.

Just Kidding

Tell the missus you'll do the dishes if she cleans the barrel.  It's easier doing dishes.

Just kidding

At the end of day two at Dixons Rifle Fair I still had a twenty in my pocket.  So I wandered by the tent that housed The Chambers crew, resisted the urge to buy a stock blank from the guy next to them because I am simply not talented enough, turned away and....Lo!!!  The Lord spoke to me and by divine hand placed this guy with a little brass and rubber unit  that clamps onto the breech by the touch hole right in my path.   I brought it home, put a hole punch to the cap of a Deer Park water bottle, pulled the brass end, slid that onto the hose, replaced the brass end and loaded up the bottle less than half way with hot water.  The end of his little device went into the bottle and the clamp onto the barrel.

Maybe twenty vigorous pumps or so, possibly with definite Freudian implications, and that barrel came out spotless.  I didn't take prisoners.  Spoke to it lovingly and dried it thoroughly, WD40'd it and then lubed it with somebody's oil.

Slap my face and call me Heretical, but that little tube was so effective I used the same file to round the breech face where the heat vent meets it to  cut a small groove above the side plate to house the clamp when I make a gun.  Not being a devotee of historical school accuracy, now when I go out with my sons or grandsons we are done cleaning in time for pasta and sauce.

You might want to yank the breech plug, get rid of all the black stuff that the guys in front of me in this post advised you to get rid of, and find this little tube thinggy.

I'm not kidding

Don't shoot yore eye out, kid

The Capgun Kid


clevefails

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2017, 04:09:56 PM »
sorry guys,this i not just a dirty barrel,here is a pick of patches from last night.I scrubbed again with ba copper wire brush and then patch with alcohol,repeated several times and i am still getting black out


Offline thecapgunkid

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2017, 04:23:47 PM »
Re reading the posts here, it looks like you have something going on in that barrel that a normal routine may not help you with.  Maybe think about pulling the breech plug so you can get a visual, and maybe stop the wire brush.

In any case, change your routine

Offline snapper

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2017, 04:41:16 PM »
try using disinfectant wipes for your cleaning patches, see if after a few of those if your barrel is not clean.

Fleener
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2017, 05:18:53 PM »
I had a similar problem many years ago, and tracked it to an aluminum cleaning rod, and the bronze brush I was using. These combined with the cleaning solution I was using was generating the dirty patches. I clean now with the guns ramrod, a cleaning jag, and cold water. Problem solved, at least for me.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2017, 06:04:16 PM »
Snapper,
I might try using those, what brand/kind do I look for? Do you use them from the git-go or after cleaning with water or ?
Dennis


try using disinfectant wipes for your cleaning patches, see if after a few of those if your barrel is not clean.

Fleener
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Offline snapper

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2017, 06:26:01 PM »
I have only tried the Clorox brand.  I use them from the start.  No water.

I simple take one sheet, rip it in 4 pieces and fold that piece over a few times to put on the jag.  So far I have been very happy.

Fleener
My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2017, 06:42:10 PM »
  I use the same as snapper does they work great. If I even think there's any rust I swab with a couple patches of Evapor-rust. Then a couple of patches with Ballistol. Much preferred over W-D 40 but that's just me. Oldtravler

hammer

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2017, 08:55:00 PM »
Keep using those strips wrapped round your bronze brush.   And after a few alternate the brush alone.   Nothing loosens the fouling like a wire brush.   BUT DO REMEMBER TO CLEAN THE BRUSH!   Or you will be transferring from the brush to the cloth strip.     And remember the fouling is not just gently smeared on the surface of the bore.   After a number of shots it is compressed and compacted by the passing ball and almost baked on, certainly towards the breech.    It can take some work to get back to perfectly clean steel.     Using just patches may leave it appearing to be clean yet the later gun oil will have loosen more to leave a pre-shooting patch come out black again.   Don't give up.  It will be much easier next time.  Keep working till everything is spotless and prove it with a good final swab of WD40 coming out clean.   Then dry and apply of wet swab of gun oil.   
And don't forget fouling does accumulate on the breech face.  I attack this by wrapping the strip round the brush with a good portion extending from the end.   Wet it all with cleaning solution, twist the excess and feed into the bore ahead of the brush.   Twist the whole thing at the breech.  Repeat till the ends are clean.
Good luck.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2017, 10:06:27 PM »
You guys sure do it the hard way.
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Offline Frank

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2017, 10:11:30 PM »
You guys sure do it the hard way.

Yep, they sure do. Water and a patch or tow, dry and some WD-40. All done in less than 5 minutes.

Offline hanshi

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2017, 12:38:51 AM »
See if you can borrow a retired Drill Instructor from Parris Island.   Maybe a Guy like Gunny.   Have him stand in back of you while you clean.  It'll solve all your problems and it won't matter what solvent you are using.


Hey, capgunkid, I managed to get hold of Gunny and he agreed to help as you suggested.


LISTEN UP, CLEVEFAILS!  I'M GOING TO WATCH EVERY MOVE YOU MAKE.  YOU WILL  CLEAN THAT BORE BY THE NUMBERS AND GET IT DOWN TO BARE STEEL OR I WILL SERIOUSLY @%&$ YOU UP.

Now back to the problem.  I, too, get gray patches frequently the next day; it goes with the territory, apparently. 
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: cleaning problem
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2017, 04:12:06 AM »
Wipe the clean bore in question with WATER and a tight patch and see what comes out. If its black set the patch aside to dry. Wipe it with a few more wet and then dry it and oil it. Check the patch(s) you set aside the next morning to see what color they are. If they are rust colored when dry you have iron oxide on the patches. If the patches are GREY (low humidity, maybe black in high humidity) when dry then its fouling.
It could also be graphite since the lower grade powders have a graphite coating to make them shiny.
Dan
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