Trouble removing tumbler from hammer

[Treebeard]

This morning was going to start work on finish inletting my lock on my precarve stock. So I was trying to separate the hammer and tumbler after removing all the other parts and the tumbler refused to separate. I set the lock up between two pieces of wood and used a brass punch to no avail. Hit it pretty hard but did not want to chance bending the plate. It is a new L&R Dickert and looking at the tumbler recess there is some black hardened remains that looks like black Loctite. Hope I am being paranoid!

[Hungry Horse]

A little heat from a propane torch will tell you pretty quick if it has some sort of locking compound on it. Not so much heat that you compromise the temper of the parts.

  Hungry Horse

[BOB HILL]

L&R does not use locktite on them. Just a tite fit. Pressed on.       Bob

[Daryl]

This morning was going to start work on finish inletting my lock on my precarve stock. So I was trying to separate the hammer and tumbler after removing all the other parts and the tumbler refused to separate. I set the lock up between two pieces of wood and used a brass punch to no avail. Hit it pretty hard but did not want to chance bending the plate. It is a new L&R Dickert and looking at the tumbler recess there is some black hardened remains that looks like black Loctite. Hope I am being paranoid!

I put that lock on my .45 flinter. What an excellent lock!

[Dave R]

Be sure to use a punch just slightly smaller than the square hole in the hammer and NOT use a small punch that fits in the tumbler threaded hole or " YOU MAY BREAK THE TUMBLER SHAFT" Soak it in Kroil or other penetrating oil for a couple of days may help!

[PPatch]

Be sure to use a punch just slightly smaller than the square hole in the hammer and NOT use a small punch that fits in the tumbler threaded hole or " YOU MAY BREAK THE TUMBLER SHAFT" Soak it in Kroil or other penetrating oil for a couple of days may help!

There you go, Dave's advice is sound. I ground and filed a round punch square and just a hair undersized for this purpose, be sure the end is dead flat. Soaking it in the loosening liquid of your choice will help.

dave (the other)

[ltdann]

Be sure to use a punch just slightly smaller than the square hole in the hammer and NOT use a small punch that fits in the tumbler threaded hole or " YOU MAY BREAK THE TUMBLER SHAFT" Soak it in Kroil or other penetrating oil for a couple of days may help!

MMMMM, Kroil!  Good stuff-penetrant of choice.  A little bit goes along way.

[Treebeard]

Thanks to all who replied. I will modify a punch to fit the square hole and use the Kroil. Good to know there is no Loctite!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I assume you have completely disassembled the lock, with now only the tumbler and the cock on the plate.  Open the jaws of your machinist's vise just enough to allow the tumbler to fit between the jaws with the plate flat on the top of the jaws.  Now, use your square punch to tap the tumbler out of the cock's square hole.  It should be easy - I've never had any problems at all.

[Elnathan]

I made a tumbler punch by soldering a piece of scrap brass on the end of a piece of 5/16" mild steel rod and filing the working end square.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

A firm tap with a medium sized hammer is better than a lot of timid taps with a light one.  The tool you've made should do the trick, as long as it isn't too tight in the square hole of the cock.

[Mark Elliott]

I use a block like the following to disassemble a lock:



It is cut from a 3/4" thick piece of plywood.   

[Jerry V Lape]

Okay, I will play straight man and ask for instructions in using your plywood lock disassembler and something about the dimensions of the cuts?

[Mark Elliott]

I didn't know I was going to have to answer  questions about it.    The block is simply cut out to accommodate the bolster and tumbler on a couple size locks.   I have used blocks like this out of a couple different types of materials for some time.     You can also drill some holes to drive out pins.   

[Treebeard]

I used two pieces of 2x4 spaced just far enough apart to clear the tumbler then hit it with a round brass punch using a standard carpenter type hammer. Squaring up a brass punch is a better approach.
It is now sitting with the bolster shaf soaking in kroil. Mike Beliveaux on YouTube just gives them a medium tap and out they come!

[BOB HILL]

I used the method described with the square punch and wood for many years and it worked for me.L&R sells a hammer pull and a press for this job. I ordered one when Bill showed me the first one they had designed and have used it every since. If you are doing this job a lot, it's worth the investment in my opinion. The press makes it easy to replace the tumbler.....Bob

[Dale Halterman]

Every L&R lock I have had had the hammer pressed on very tight. I use an old carriage bolt with the end ground square and a vise like Taylor does.

Before re-assembly, I file/stone the square part of the tumbler a bit so it fits better.

Dale H

[Eric Krewson]

Simple ideas from simple minds;  a 1" forstner bit and a small block of wood, works perfectly to remove the cock and the tumbler doesn't go dancing around the room after it comes out.



I had to mark what it was on the block to keep from tossing it in the trash like I do most scraps of wood that accumulate on my work bench.

[Hessian]

I used the method described with the square punch and wood for many years and it worked for me.L&R sells a hammer pull and a press for this job. I ordered one when Bill showed me the first one they had designed and have used it every since. If you are doing this job a lot, it's worth the investment in my opinion. The press makes it easy to replace the tumbler.....Bob

I have one also. Makes easy work of the dis-assembly of most any lock with no damage to the tumbler.

Hessian

[Tom Cooper]

I used the method described with the square punch and wood for many years and it worked for me.L&R sells a hammer pull and a press for this job. I ordered one when Bill showed me the first one they had designed and have used it every since. If you are doing this job a lot, it's worth the investment in my opinion. The press makes it easy to replace the tumbler.....Bob

I have one also. Makes easy work of the dis-assembly of most any lock with no damage to the tumbler.

Hessian

I bought and have used the puller and the press, what I found was the puller tends to mar the surface at the contact points on the lock plate and the cock, not good for a finished lock.
 After learning from the Chambers site that a square peg was preferable for disassembly that's the method I use and prefer.

Recently though, like the original poster, I had a L&R lock that I could not drive the tumbler out of the cock with the punch, glad I had the puller as I had no choice but to use it, the lock was unfinished so didn't have to worry about scuffing it up.

[smallpatch]

A 1" socket set on your bench, a square punch, and a small hammer.  Never had one that wouldn't come out.

[Eric Krewson]

I just sent an L&R lock back because the tumbler shaft stuck through the plate so far the cock stop was only hitting the edge of the plate. When I got the lock back I found they had scratched up my carefully polished lock plate. I disassembled the lock and found they had crammed the tumbler shaft through the lock plate with some force, the tumbler shaft had a huge burr on it from grinding the shaft shorter, they had forced the shaft through the hole, burr and all.

I thought, how did they scratch up my lock plate and how did they get that shaft into the plate with that huge burr on it. Now I know, they used the tool mentioned above, real shoddy work on their part.

I sanded and repolished the lock plate, filed off the burr and polished the tumbler shaft, all is well.

[ron w]

i wonder if setting the tumbler on a small block of dry ice for a while would shrink it enough to break the tension. at least enough that it would punch out easier.

[Hungry Horse]

I was throwing out some old broken tools years ago and was just about to pitch a medium sized C clamp that had lost the foot on the end of the leed screw, when I had a great idea. I backed the screw out of the clamp frame, and ground the end down to a half inch long flat pointed pin. I made a block like the round one shown, to support the plate, now press the stubborn tumblers out.  Kroil is the best penetrating oil I've ever used.

 Hungry Horse

[Treebeard]

Thanks to Mark, Eric and the others I was able to come up with a low cost solution. I drilled a 1 inch hole using a Forster bit about the middle of a short length of 2x4. I then cut out clearance for the pan extension on the back of the lock so it would lay flat and be supported. I then squared off the end of a old broken brass punch to fit the square hole thru the hammer. Remembered I had an old antique reloading press laying out in the yard that had tremendous leverage and used it like an arbor press to put pressure on the punch as it pushed on the tumbler arm and it popped right out. Now I can go back to finish inletting the lockplate. I would post pictures but have not learned how to do so. Thanks to all who posted with suggestions.