Signing ones work

[Scota4570]

Lots of guys sign their rifles.  I have been encouraged to do so.  I am proud of my work and the idea is appealing. 

I do not carry any special insurance, other than an umbrella policy.  My gun work is not separated from my personal finances, ie incorporated.  It seems possible that if somebody gets hurt, my fault or not, with one of my rifles, I could be held financially responsible. 

If I don't sign it I would be harder to track down. 

What are people's thoughts on signing work? 

[Hungry Horse]

The sky might fall too, but I'm not going start wearing a hard hat just in case. Worry about fit, and finish, and then sign the thing. It's one of the few ways somebody a hundred years from now might know you were here.

  Hungry Horse

[TMerkley]

How many other people have the same name as you?

There are two other people in my county alone with my name.  They are distant relatives.  I just wonder if they have had any death threats.....

[axelp]

I saw a documentary of a very famous old japanese potter. He was awarded the honor of being named a "national art treasure" in Japan. He chose to never sign his work. when asked why he said

 "because if someone happens across a work that they really like that is not signed, they might attribute it to me. And if someone happens across a work of mine that they dont like, they might attribute it to someone else..."

a wise man.

K

[Ky-Flinter]

I like that Ken.  Thanks.

-Ron

[Mad Monk]

Lots of guys sign their rifles.  I have been encouraged to do so.  I am proud of my work and the idea is appealing. 

I do not carry any special insurance, other than an umbrella policy.  My gun work is not separated from my personal finances, ie incorporated.  It seems possible that if somebody gets hurt, my fault or not, with one of my rifles, I could be held financially responsible. 

If I don't sign it I would be harder to track down. 

What are people's thoughts on signing work?

I built a few schimmels and signed them  in the barrel channel with a soft pencil.  Then I got involved in a legal case where a guy bought a factory built Spanish made ml rifle that blew up.  The injured party sued the widow of the original owner, the person running the yard sale where it was resold and the gunshop that simply sold the new owner a new nipple and powder to shoot it with.  The law firm I did the work for warned me against signing any rifles in the future.   The legal costs put the little gunshop out of business.  The cause of the failure was simply a short started ball in a percussion rifle.  When the barrel burst a piece of the stock took a chunk out of the shooter's hand.  And all those who were shooting the rifle at the time of the failure had been drinking alcohol.   Don't expect honesty in the legal system if by some chance one of your builds fails.

[Mark Elliott]

Most artists sign their work.    I sign all of mine, including my guns, the same way; M. Elliott.   I also put a date and serial number on them.   Before I could engrave a signature,  I stamped the bottom of the barrel with my initials and a serial number. 

When I was doing enough work to afford it, I bought liability insurance.   When I couldn't afford it,  I trusted in God to take care of me.   Of course,  I am relatively poor and have little for a lawyer to take.    The more you have the more you need to worry.     

[Mad Monk]

When I was doing enough work to afford it, I bought liability insurance.   When I couldn't afford it,  I trusted in God to take care of me.   Of course,  I am relatively poor and have little for a lawyer to take.    The more you have the more you need to worry.     

That works out to about the best approach.  The gun suit I worked on showed a contingency fee attorney pushing the gun blow up case.  Before they start laying out their money to push a case they look to see if any recovery would be of any value.  With our house in both names they can't touch it.  As I told one back in the mid-1980s.  All he would get was a big old hound dog and a three foot high stack of old gun magazines.  Never heard anymore out of him.

[WadePatton]

LLC or Inc or poordom are your best bets.

INC is cheapest, just more paperwork/regs.  LLC is simplest, but $400 annual filing fee last I checked.  Being genuinely broke, without land or house of any size is a great deterrent.  Snakes (er, I mean sharks) don't work for peanuts and WILL require a steep retainer if they decide to chase empty pockets.

But most will never bother chasing empty pockets, unless there is some publicity up for grabs.

WP, JD. 

[Scota4570]

Nice to see the well considered responses.

My name has a unique spelling.  I do have significant assets.  I'd make a juicy target for a crooked lawler. 

I may sign a few things I never intend to sell.  Like my Armstrong Long Rifle, It needs "Scot Armstrong" on the top flat.
 

[snapper]

if you sign it or not you still have the liability.  You assume that someone is not smart enough to track it back to you if it is not signed.

I am a bee keeper.  I used to sell my honey at the local tree hugger store.  Then I got a little worried.  If you give honey to an infant, it can kill them.  It was not worth the price of insurance to be covered, so I quit selling it to them.  My new customer used it in their wine.  Now I only have 2 hives, and give it away if I have any.

It was not worth the risk of having my personal assets attacked, or the price of a lawyer to defend me.  My personal liability umbrella will not cover me for business liability.

Like I tell my kids, "life is full of decisions, chose wisely"

Fleener

[Joe S.]

interesting thread,as said to put your signature or not you still will be held liable.Everybody involved will have a seat at that table should the worse happen.The only thing you can do is do what's right in making the rifle,using quality parts with quality workmanship.If it's that much of a worry incorporate.

[Daryl]

I'm kinda partial to signatures, like these in particular.










or a bit differently done.



 

[jerrywh]

 If your not making barrels or breaching them you shouldn't have a thing to worry about.

[Eric Krewson]

I stamp in my name, date and location on the bottom flat of the barrel. I do this so someone 100 years down the road won't try to pawn off one of my crude creations as an original attic find worth a fortune.

[n stephenson]

Daryl, I wish I had some of those beauties with Mr. Sapergia`s  signature aboard!!!!!!  Thanks Nathan

[Smoketown]

Daryl, I wish I had some of those beauties with Mr. Sapergia`s  signature aboard!!!!!!  Thanks Nathan

Yup,

Some fair scratchin's an' right pert whittlin' there.   

Cheers,
Smoketown

[oldtravler61]

  Between Taylor an Jerry I'd like to have 1/5 of their talent.    Mike

[Daryl]

Unfortunately, the only guns of those I own, are the top and bottom rifles.

[Joe S.]

If your not making barrels or breaching them you shouldn't have a thing to worry about.

You think if you cut your dove tails a wee bit to deep and something bad happened a jury might think different?

[jerrywh]

 I have $50.00 for anybody who can document a barrel blowing out at a dovetail at anytime in the past. Even modern gun barrel don't do that at 63000psi.  The surrounding metal gives too much support. Many antique shotgun barrels were less than .032" thick for the last 12".  If you blow a dove tail it will be in the Guiness book of records.

[Joe S.]

I think Acer has a photo of one,does the short started ball change the bet

[Robby]

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6403.msg60166#msg60166

[Joe S.]

yup,that's the one,I also seem to remember a dovetail that let go in the rear lug in a hawken,not sure the reason,can't remember???. User error probably wins the case but I'm sure when lawyers start splitting hairs and the dovetails thin you might share some of the blame.I still know a few folks that swear by seating two balls down the barrel for deer hunting.

[Daryl]

I have $50.00 for anybody who can document a barrel blowing out at a dovetail at anytime in the past. Even modern gun barrel don't do that at 63000psi.  The surrounding metal gives too much support. Many antique shotgun barrels were less than .032" thick for the last 12".  If you blow a dove tail it will be in the Guiness book of records.

Didn't blow - but rung - an early 15/16" .50 Bauska barrel, dovetail too deep, bulged in the barrel wedge dovetail. Never loaded without seating on the powder. The dovetail was 12" or 13" ahead of the breech. Load was 80gr. 3F over a tightly patched round ball.