General discussion > Black Powder Shooting

Accuracy

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northmn:
We beat definitions to death in the barrel coning thread, but for the sake of this one accuracy will be defined as the ability to hit what you shoot at, be it a deer, X ring or whatever.  Accuracy cannot be discussed positively without quantification, as in 1" at 50 yards, other wise you are as they say comparing oranges to apples.
When you read the threads you see all sorts of discussions and questions on what effects accuracy, from patch material, patch thickness, patch lube, barrel rifling type etc.  How to modify sights is another common discussion.
Heres my 2 cents with an invitation for others.  To get a rifle to shoot where I want it too, first I work on the grouping.  I used to use a formula that seemed to be pretty consistant.  A 015 or 010 patch and adjust the ball to shoot.  In a 45 I had 445 molds and for one barrel even shot a 451.  A 50 would see 495, 498 or 500.  Lubes varied, but I used Crisco mostly as it worked under a variety of conditions.  Now after reading some of the threads, may change that a little.  Always used a gold bead front sight so I could see the top, and often brazed the bead on a iron sight.  Now am playing with Express type sights that I can see.  Never used any barrels other than the more mass produced ones, such as the current Green Mountain, but spent my money on as good of locks and triggers as I could get at the time.  Generally this would get the one inch groups or better at 50 yards.
I consider that a fair criteria for about any ML.  100 yard groups would be kind of meaningless for my 25 project and for the 32's I built.  A smoothbore shooter might find 1" pretty challenging and have another.  An individual into bench rifles weighing better than 25 pounds might have much different criteria and enjoy more fussing than I did.  I got third place in a 100 yard bench rest match one time with an offhand rifle and open sights, but it was a windy weekend and I was shooting a 58RB at the time.
Always took my time sighting in fixed sights as once set they would often be difficult to adjust any further.  Probably tended to err on a slightly high shooting gun.  As to the less expensive barrels.  One brand tended to "shoot in" and would require a boost in patch thickness after a 100 shots or so.  One advantage of more expensive barrels.  My 2 cents for a basic formula.

DP

   

Frizzen:
Accuracy is in the eye of the beholder!

Wyoming Mike:
I start with a ball an patch combo that will start with a slap on the short starter.  I use two loads, one for 25 and 50 yards and another for 100 yards and hunting.   I do all load workup off the bench because I want to minimize my foibles and just see what the rifle is doing.  I always use open iron sights on all my rifles.

I work up the load at 50 yards.  I have found that I cannot get the spread to differentiate between different loads at 25 yards.  I start at the rifle's caliber for a load, that is 50 grains for a .50.  I adjust the sights enough to get it printing on paper at 50 yards,  then shoot for groups.  I usually use about a 3/4" spot on piece of typing paper.  I can see that well enough at 50 yards and it gives me a fine point to shoot at.  I shoot 5 shots then drop it 5 grains and shoot another 5.  If the group tightens up, not very often, I will drop another 5 grains and do another 5 shots.  If the group widens dropping the load then I go 5 grains over the starting load then shoot 5 shots.  If it tightens up then I go five more and so on.  All the while I check to see that I'm not blowing or cutting patches.  If I have different sized balls for a given caliber I will repeat the process with each size.  Usually the rifle will like a certain patch and ball combination over another.

After that I will monkey with the patch materiel to see if it likes one over the other.  Once I get the load shooting within an inch at 50 yards I then will work with the sights to bring it into zero at 50 yards.

For 100 yards I use one of those 2" florescent sticky targets on a piece of paper for the same reason I use the smaller spot at 50 yards.  I up the load to where the POA/POI is the same as at 50.  This usually comes in at a couple of inches high or low at that range.  I adjust the load by 5 grain increments here also to find the tightest group.  With my old eyes and open iron sights that usually means about a 2 - 2 1/2 inch spread.

Dphariss:
A lot of this is perspective coupled with the individuality of the individual rifles invovled.
I once had a Douglas 50 cal that would shoot small groups with 490 RB and a heavy patch. I never shot a 1 hole 100 yard group with it but then where I live not having wind is a major luxury and it seems when its not blowing there is something else already in progress (right now its 23 gusting to 30 plus). I did shoot some pretty good 100 yard groups both offhand and with a rest. I shot 5 one day that would have cut one hole for vertical dispersion but was about 3" wide due to the wind.
By getting out at daylight a couple of years ago I found that my 54 would shoot about 6" at 200 before the wind came up. At 200 a puff is enough to blow a group. I did this 2 days running and could shoot about 8-10 rounds then the wind would come up.
If its blowing 30mph for group is measured in feet. Shot a match at 200 with it I know.
I also tend to load as my forebears would have. I despise a starter. I use one with the 16 bore but don't like it. I consider it to be just extra weight to carry when hunting. The 16 like to fray the patches at the lands if loaded loose enough to not need a starter so I use a thicker patch.
I prefer to load with just the rod.
So when someone says they cannot load a 54 with a 3/8" rod I see it as something being wrong. I have a 54 with a tapered  rod that is 5/16 at the small end. I START balls with this rod. Its 30 years old or more and has loaded the rifle hundreds or times. So not being able to load a 54 with a 3/8" rod makes no sense to me.
Sometimes its the internal finish in the bore, sometimes its the lube being squeezed out of the patch. Many possible causes. If I were having this problem I would look for the reason and correct it. Others may think its normal???
Like everyone else here MY perspective is based on MY experience with the rifles I have owned over the years.

Dan

hanshi:
I do something similar to what Northmn does.  I don't work up two loads, one for 25 & one for 50yds.  What I do have is a target/general load and a hunting load so I guess I do have two loads in that sense.  While I don't go to the trouble of experimenting (a lot) with patch thicknesses and ball size, I usually end up with 5 shot groups at 50yds of 1" or less depending on caliber.  I don't shoot target loads at longer distances.  At 100yds I simply can't see well enough to discern that kind of difference.  My hunting loads have been tested (on deer) at 95 to over 100yds and hit where i want them to.  I use blade sights of brass, GS & iron but paint them with flat white paint.  This way they don't glare much in sunlight and show up very well in the woods.  

My target/general load is usually developed first.  I sight in to have this load either dead on at 50yds or slightly (1" or so) high, again depending on the gun.  This puts my hunting load 2" -  3" high at that distance.  Since the hunting load is used for large animals this works fine.  The target load is good for small game and plinking as well.  I normally use 3f for everything.  Ball sizes are .311, .350, .390, .440, .490 and .530.  While I have .445 & 451 molds I've settled on .440 and .018 - .020 ticking for patching material.   I've also never found a grease lube that works better than plain Crisco so that is what I normally use.  On the range and in the woods I use Black Solve (mostly) or Hoppes #9 Plus lube for all reloads if the load is not to be left in the barrel for a long time; otherwise I'll use Crisco for that, too.  Another thing I've learned to do is to always use an over powder wad.  I've used wasp nest, dry patches, lubed bore buttons (made for revolvers) and balls of toilet paper.  I've come to rely on bore buttons for hunting and toilet paper wads for all other shooting.  Toilet paper is cheap and I've never had it catch on fire or smolder.  The wad protects the powder from lube contamination which is important when the load will be in there for a while.  My first requirement has always been to have a load that goes down with only moderate rod pressure after being seated with my short starter.  I've found my procedure/protocol allows me to shoot for an afternoon without having to swab the barrel or experiencing any reduction in accuracy.  I use a range rod except when hunting but I can't afford a broken rod or stuck ball while in the woods.  

When hunting I carry individually weighed charges in home made containers.  I use a horn or flask at the range but don't normally load directly from them.  I'll use a scale to set my adjustable powder measure and don't rely simply on "volume" measuring unless in a hurry.  I get "accuracy" from my longrifles that satisfies my requirements.  I don't claim to have gotten the best from them; I simply can't see/shoot well enough to do better.  My 2 cents worth.

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