any idea of the origin of this one

[490roundball]

heavy barreled - great curly maple stock.  about a .36 - the lock's condition seems to be rougher than the rest of the gun but it fits the mortise like it belongs there - the wood is very good - looks like the barrel was slightly set back a one point.  there seem to be a name on the top flat - but can't be read in the light I had in the antique shop. I think it starts with a G - may have an F in there- maybe starting a second name

[Levy]

I don't know much about the different schools of gunmakers, but this one looks like near Bedford Cty to me.  I hope some one who really knows nails it for you.
James Levy

[490roundball]

Thanks James - but the lock looks wrong to me for a Bedford

I was leaning towards upper Susquehanna -  but that is a swag on my part

[Hungry Horse]

 The patch box, and side plate, look Bedford, as does the engraving on the side plate. But a lot of guns from Somerset also have these features. The stock shape doesn't look very Bedford, what little I can see of it. The ramrod pipe overlapping the nose cap is a feature I have not seen before, and is likely a "signature" feature of the maker.

  Hungry Horse

[JTR]

The ramrod pipe overlapping the nose cap is a feature I have not seen before, and is likely a "signature" feature of the maker.

  Hungry Horse

From the original post, "looks like the barrel was slightly set back a one point." So the barrel was set back, nose cap set back, and now runs into RR pipe. No "signature of the maker" involved...

There's several makers in Bedford/Somerset counties area with those initials, and the gun certainly fits that area. The lock might be original for a late period gun, but might not be as well. Not really a big deal one way or another on a gun like this.
 
So how much do they want? If it isn't too much, I'd buy it!

John

[490roundball]

well- John-  I'll let you know-

here is the "rest of the story"-  a couple that were antique dealers passed away, and it's for sale as part of the estate by their daughter

I have to make an offer by tomorrow if I want it-  as a starting point they were asking $750- 
 
BUT-  -  some idiot poured something in barrel to -  as I was told - "make it safe to have"    -  not sure what it is, how deep it goes or what it will take to get it out,  it starts about 2 inches down, may be an inch or two - may go to the breech for all I know

The bore is lightly rusted with rifling still visible in the exposed part

the lock won't cock-  but I don't see that as a big deal, I feel some tension, so may be the tip of the spring

the only damage to the wood is that chip in front of the lock

[Shreckmeister]

I don't think it'll be much trouble identifying the maker. seems like a good price. I'll take it if you don't want it

[JTR]

Well, I think I'd go back to the store with six or seven $100 bills in hand, and two or three more in my pocket. Out here, you wouldn't get the gun for less than 1200/1500 bucks.

As for whatever is down the barrel, unless you plan on shooting it, what difference does it make? And if you plan on shooting it, I'd suggest looking for a much better condition gun to start with.

Go for it!!!

John

PS, Or send Shreck the info! 

[Hungry Horse]

John;

  I have seen old longrifle with the barrels filled with tallow, or lard, to preserve them during long term storage. Sometimes it can hardens to the point it shrinks away from the inside of the barrel up towards the muzzle, and over time the riflings can get rusty. I hope that is  what it is, instead of some other harder to remove substance.

  Hungry Horse

[490roundball]

I shoot my flintlocks I made-

I do have one percussion rifle made by a shirt tail ancestor that actually is shootable

its just one of those things - no one glues the drawers shut in an antique desk so a kid doesn't pinch his finger 

[JCKelly]

Just be careful about heating the barrel to get that stuff out

Might be powder & ball at the breech            Comes out pretty fast when heated

[490roundball]

thanks JC - but believe it or not -  i'm not as as stupid as I look      and that's a good thing

and i have actually found loads in old guns,  (i will add, since the above is in jest - it is good advice for those new to old guns)


the blockage is not old tallow- it is hard and the seller says was poured in there specifically to make sure the gun couldn't be used - 

i'll throw a number at it and see what happens-  if i am "shot" down - i'll let the others with interest know

[JTR]

Good Luck!

John

[490roundball]

OK -  it came home with me today- 

I will get the equipment out and do some proper photos - if there is something specific someone needs me to take a shot at ID'ing it - let me know

but -  a couple additional details -  the remaining barrel is 39 3/4 inches - and swamped  the muzzle measures .980 - the waist is .890  and the breech is now .944 but you can see it was originally closer to the muzzle size.

there is a signature on the top flat -  a little of it may have been lost when the barrel was set back-  i hope it might show up on a tracing paper rubbing

here is a quick shot of that

[Shreckmeister]

Congrats on being the new owner. Plenty of signature to ID it.  Seen that sig before but can't remember who. Looking forward to more pics of overall rifle. You did well

[490roundball]

I have been told the maker is George Fay - thank you Mark

i will get some photos up soon

[JTR]

Congratulations!
And I know its not any of our business, but how much did you have to pay? 

Curiously, John

[490roundball]

now

if i answered that - i won't be able to sell it at a big profit when and if that time comes 


more than i offered - less than they asked


well, ok   $625

[JTR]

Ya did well!!
John

[IROCZ]

Very cool rifle, Did you figure out what the bore was plugged with?

[490roundball]

Very cool rifle, Did you figure out what the bore was plugged with?

not yet- haven't had time to do anything with it -  photos will be first - when i have some time to get the gear out and take good ones

[longrifle]

Very nice looking old rifle you did very well. Post more photos when you get a chance and give a update if you figure out what was put down the barrel. I picked up a CW musket they put a screw up through the bottom side of the barrel about half way down to block the barrel. Strange what people do to guns sometimes. It does not show until you take the barrel out of the stock.

[stuart cee dub]

I would see if I could get a chunk of the barrel filler out then see what solvents work on dissolving the sample before you trying the plug in the barrel itself .That way you'll minimize the potential disaster and mess.
I've witnessed a gunsmith deactivate a messed up modern inexpensive kit replica muzzleloader with epoxy to turn it into a ''made safe'' wall hanger. It wasn't worth fixing and a potential bomb to the unwary.
Perhaps try lacquer thinner first?
Just a thought.

[490roundball]

as they say ---" first - do no harm " - I will try a few simple things- if they don't work,  it stays, 

other than that -  the loose wood in front of the lock will get anchored so it will not get lost - and very little else needs to be done to preserve it

its just a shame someone would buy something they were so afraid of in the first place 

 

[TMerkley]

Do you have a picture of the plug in the barrel?