Stock and Barrel Finish

[Jud96]

Hello all! This is my first post and I am seeking advice for a long rifle I am helping my Dad put together. We have never built a long gun before, but both of us are pretty handy and he has done wood work and metal work in the past. The gun will be built from a TVM Late Lancaster kit that features a Premium++ grade curly maple stock. The only thing we are hung up on is which aqua fortis, browning, and stock finish/sealer to go with.

I have read up on this for a couple hours and have found a ton of products, but I am not sure what to go with. We want to be able to buy everything and not have to make our own aqua fortis with nitric acid and iron shavings and all of that. Does anyone have experience with Track's Aqua Fortis that they sell? I have seen a couple people online using it but I would like to get more input. Also, what sealer/finish do you guys use after using the acid? My Dad wants a finish that is durable but won't leave a white mark in the wood if it gets bumped like a varnish but will have a nice medium brown sheen and isn't super shiny. Track also sells a product from Laurel Mountain Forge called Permalyn. Has anyone ever used this and how did they like it?

My final question is, what browning do you all like to use? Track has their own, that they say is copied from an original recipe, is this stuff any good? I know there are a few others available but I haven't really read about which is better or worse.

Sorry for asking so many questions, I just want to make sure we get good products that we are happy with and will make for a nice rifle. Thank you all!

[Herb]

Track's aqua fortis is good to use as is.  However, I like Laurel Mountain Forge Lancaster Maple as a stain instead.  Their Permalyn Sealer and Permalyn finish are good products.  For browning I have always used LMF Barrel Browning Reagent and Degreaser with good results.  However, Doc White of the old Green River Rifle Works told me he likes Track's Brown-2.  I have not yet tried that.  Doc had his own excellent GRRW browning agent, but it has some strong chemicals in it and he doesn't make his own.  I base my suggestions on having built over 50 rifles (can't keep track), but Doc has built a couple thousand, exclusive of his GRRW rifles and White rifles.

[Jud96]

Track's aqua fortis is good to use as is.  However, I like Laurel Mountain Forge Lancaster Maple as a stain instead.  Their Permalyn Sealer and Permalyn finish are good products.  For browning I have always used LMF Barrel Browning Reagent and Degreaser with good results.  However, Doc White of the old Green River Rifle Works told me he likes Track's Brown-2.  I have not yet tried that.  Doc had his own excellent GRRW browning agent, but it has some strong chemicals in it and he doesn't make his own.  I base my suggestions on having built over 50 rifles (can't keep track), but Doc has built a couple thousand, exclusive of his GRRW rifles and White rifles.

Okay great! Thanks for the info. How does the Permalyn finish setup? I don't want something that will flake off or change color over time, and I don't want something that is like a varnish that will show up if the stock gets bumped or scratched.

[Herb]

Fast, as I remember.  Chamber's Oil Finish is another good one.  Three or four coats and you are done. I  like to use tung oil, and often do 10 coats.

[Long Ears]

Try Jim Keblers Aqua Fortis it works the best for me. He sells it on his web site. I then seal with Permalyn sealer and put on 3 coats or until it won't absorb anymore. I finish with Chambers oil with 3 to 5 hand rubbed coats. It's sometimes too shiny, if so I rub it back with rotten stone and linseed oil then wipe it off. Let it dry for a couple of days and then I apply wax. Bob

[moleeyes36]

I've used Track's Aqua Fortis (Iron Nitrate) and found it to be pretty "hot".  If you don't rub the stock down with household ammonia to neutralize the acid after you finish blushing it with the heat gun the wood may, I say MAY, continue turning dark over time until it is very dark.  Learned that one the hard way  .  Jim Kibler's Iron Nitrate is IMHO a much better product.  https://kiblerslongrifles.com/collections/finishing-supplies .  LMF Barrel Browning Reagent and Degreaser has been a good product whenever I brown or rust blue a barrel.  You might also consider leaving the barrel and lock in the white or using Jim Kiblers Patina Solution, a fast and nearly fool proof finish.  Also, as others have said, Jim Chambers Traditional Oil Finish is a top notch product that can be used without a separate sealer.  It's all I use now days.

There are many, many good ways to finish the wood and metal on a rifle and a lot of good products to do the job.  It's kind of like asking what's your favorite patch lube; everyone will have a different answer.  It's mostly a matter of personal preference.

Mole Eyes

[smallpatch]

Ferric Nitrate Chrystals from Science Co.  Small jar of Chrystals dissolved in distilled water gives a pint of active solution that is the active ingredient in aqua fortis.  No need to neutralize.  About $10, and will do several rifles.
No muss, no fuss.....great product.
Top that with Chambers oil finish...... all I use now.
LMF browning solution for metal parts.

[PPatch]

Ferric Nitrate Chrystals from Science Co.  Small jar of Chrystals dissolved in distilled water gives a pint of active solution that is the active ingredient in aqua fortis.  No need to neutralize.  About $10, and will do several rifles.
No muss, no fuss.....great product.
Top that with Chambers oil finish...... all I use now.
LMF browning solution for metal parts.

There you go! Ferric Nitrate,  Jim Chambers Traditional Oil Finish and LMF browning for the metal.

As smallpatch mentions there is no worry, nor need, to neutralize with Ferric Nitrate (FN). You can mix it with water or alcohol at either 3:1 or 5:1 liquid to FN. It, when you're finished, looks exactly like AQ.

The chambers oil is dead simple to use and will not turn white when exposed to water etc. For the first coat you flood it on for about 10 minutes, let the wood absorb all it will, then wipe off the excess with a cloth or paper shop towel. It is then important to allow each coat to dry before applying the next. The last few coats are simply applied with a finger, one small area after the other. Produces a very nice traditional low sheen finish that is quite tough in use.

LMF brown is very forgiving, you apply thin even coats without applying pressure - I use Q-tips or cotton balls, and do not press them to the metal but allow them to just glide along. The first coat might look like a mess but that will all even out as you apply subsequent coats, allowing it to work for several hours in between applications (according to your local humidity conditions).

dave

[Dennis Glazener]

I like the Chambers oil the best of anything I have used. I wanted to use  Permalyn sealer (as suggested by several) but I just didn't get what I thought was a nice even finish with it. Guess I wasn't holding my mouth right or too big a hurry or too slow or sumthin!
Dennis

[SingleMalt]

I haven't browned a barrel in years, so I can't say what works with any authority. For stock finishes, I've had excellent results with Tru-Oil. I cut one bottle 50% with turpentine and apply very thin coats until the pores of the wood are filled. Then apply thin coats full strength until the finish is smooth.

[smallpatch]

PPatch,
I've never "rubbed in" a single coat on any of mine.  I flood the surface, wait a couple of minutes, and wipe off the excess with a cloth.  Takes 3 or 4 coats, and makes a perfect low sheen finish.
I thought that's how the instructions read, I could be wrong, but it works!

[Jud96]

Thanks all for the replies. He decided to get Aqua Fortis, Browning, and the Permalyn sealer and finish from Track. He is going to experiment with it on a scrap piece of curly maples and see how the finish works and turns out. I will create a thread showing the progress of the build when the kit arrives and we start on it. Thank you all again for the help!

[Eric Krewson]

Keibler's Iron Nitrate, Chambers oil finish, LMF, hard to beat.

[PPatch]

Thanks all for the replies. He decided to get Aqua Fortis, Browning, and the Permalyn sealer and finish from Track. He is going to experiment with it on a scrap piece of curly maples and see how the finish works and turns out. I will create a thread showing the progress of the build when the kit arrives and we start on it. Thank you all again for the help!

With "Permalyn" there is no need to experiment - it is just shiny polyurethane. May as well save money and buy a quart at the big box store.

dave

[elkhorne]

PPatch and/or smallpatch,
Can either of you discuss how you apply the ferric nitrate, i.e. how many coats, whether you blush and when, whisker in between coats, when using alcohol as a solvent do you whisker or is it not necessary? That will help the rest of us start with a set procedure. Thanks for the proportions but why the difference with 3:1 or 5:1? Thanks.
elkhorne

[smallpatch]

Whiskering should already be done when you start.  However, some pieces will require either knocking down, or burnishing additional whiskers before applying finish.
That being said, apply ferric nitrate till well saturated, allow to dry, apply heat to blush.  This is a must, and how the chemical reaction works.  If whiskering is necessary, now's the time.  If you wish, apply additional stains to adjust tint now.
When surface is to your liking, apply a flooding coat of Chambers oil til it won't take any more, going over the open grain until the same.  Wipe off the excess, till none remains on the surface. Let it dry, and repeat till you're happy with the results.  Usually 3 to 4 times.  Easy peasy.  Beautiful, in the wood, low sheen finish.
Hope this helps.

[Daryl]

Tung oil is really nice, but I would give it 2 days between coats to ensure each coat is totally cured and hard before applying the next.  I found rushing this finish, as in one thin coat per day left a finish that although dry and hard, still smelled 'green' and actually felt 'green', although would not finger print and was hard to the touch.

[Jud96]

Thanks all for the replies. He decided to get Aqua Fortis, Browning, and the Permalyn sealer and finish from Track. He is going to experiment with it on a scrap piece of curly maples and see how the finish works and turns out. I will create a thread showing the progress of the build when the kit arrives and we start on it. Thank you all again for the help!

With "Permalyn" there is no need to experiment - it is just shiny polyurethane. May as well save money and buy a quart at the big box store.

dave

Should have said that earlier before we ordered it. And he wants to experiment and see what different finished turn out like before doing the stock.

[Jud96]

Thanks all for the replies. He decided to get Aqua Fortis, Browning, and the Permalyn sealer and finish from Track. He is going to experiment with it on a scrap piece of curly maples and see how the finish works and turns out. I will create a thread showing the progress of the build when the kit arrives and we start on it. Thank you all again for the help!

With "Permalyn" there is no need to experiment - it is just shiny polyurethane. May as well save money and buy a quart at the big box store.

dave

Should have said that earlier when I asked about it before we ordered it. And he wants to experiment and see what different finishes turn out like before doing the stock.

[Frank]

I have had good results with Laurel Mountain stains and browning solution and Chambers stock finish.