Author Topic: Turkey Hunting Loads  (Read 10416 times)

Offline gumboman

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Turkey Hunting Loads
« on: February 23, 2017, 06:01:01 AM »
Since turkey hunting season is on the horizon, there is some urgency for me to finalize a shot and powder load for my newly completed flintlock smoothbore. It is a 12 gauge New England fowling piece and is fitted with a Colerain American Fowler barrel in a length of 44 inches. It has been jug choked.

I have shot some 1-1/2 ounce loads with 90 grains of 2F and get good patterns at 40 yards. I believe I need a load with more shot volume to increase the shot density at 40 yards. My next shot load combination will be 2 ounces of #6 shot and 100 grains of 2f.

Tonight I considered that members of the forum could make recommendations on what they have used successfully for turkey loads in a 12 bore. So I am looking for input from those hunters who have experimented and succeeded in building an effective load for taking turkey out to 40 yards.

I also wonder about safety in using a 2 ounce load with 100 grains of 2f in the Colerain barrel. Is it safe you think?

Input is appreciated.

Offline Mauser06

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 08:27:34 AM »
Colerain has a 100gr 2oz load listed on their page for the turkey choke 20 bore.   


One thing to look at is energy/penetration...Many use a soup can as a test medium...In theory, if it penetrates the can, it'll do the job on a turkey head/neck.


Not knowing the velocity is tough.  Can't "compare" it to commercially available loads.


I dont know about the 12 bore or jug chokes.  So can't help. 


I just dropped 2 squirrels beyond 30yds with the load I am probably shooting this year.  Figure if it stones a squirrel it aughta do on a turkey. 


Looking into having my bore jugged. I'm not enjoying cleaning the turkey barrel. After getting blasted in the face with nasty water tonight I'm not happy lol.  Not sure if Caywood can bore it and then jug it or not.  If I have to sent it to be bored then send it to be jugged I will suck it up and leave it alone.

Offline gumboman

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 03:21:25 PM »
One of the Colerain Turkey choke barrels is waiting in my safe for a future build. I wondered how difficult it would be to clean. I can see the problem.

The jug choke works well and cleaning of course is no issue.

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2017, 04:15:52 PM »
First, try 2 oz of shot.   Then, if you have some, I would try some # 5 or # 4 shot.  My New England fowling gun patterns better with #4

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2017, 05:12:30 PM »
My only question is if you can't live within the limitations of a muzzleloaders  range, and velocity, why do you hunt with them? Standard hunting range for turkeys, with a modern shotgun is 40 yards. IMO trying to get a muzzleloader to perform at that range, and still call yourself an ethical sportsman is kind of a stretch.

  Hungry Horse

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2017, 06:14:38 PM »
I think it's the modern shotgun influence/thinking and the gun writers at work. which raises the expectations of what is needed. Personally, I pattern my gun at 25 to 30 yards because I like a nice full shot pattern at that range i.e. I don't want too tight a pattern at the closer ranges, 'cause if the pattern is too small, why not just use a rifle?    My Chambers NE gun is just the normal cyl. bore and I'm happy with it. 

Joe S

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2017, 06:25:11 PM »
I get good results in a cylinder bore 12 gauge to 30 yards with 80-90 grains of F, three over shot cards 1 3/8 oz of #6 and then another over shot card.  Someone recently posted some photos of very impressive patterns using cornmeal as a buffer, so you can try that too if you want to.  Reducing your powder will tighten patterns – Less powder, more lead.  Shoots far, kills dead, as some period doggerel phrased it. 

You might try changing from FF to F.  It's slower burning, and you should get reduced pressure and perhaps tighter patterns.

Personally, I’m not going to shoot 2 ounces of shot out of anything unless the gun is bolted down.  That’s because I’m a weenie.  On the other hand, it seems to me that the more lead you shoot, the more holes you’re going to put in your target.

Quote
Is it safe you think?

Now that’s an interesting question.  There was a very recent thread in Gun Building on this topic, and the answer is, we don’t know for sure, but it seems to be.

From a philosophical perspective, I like my longbows and I don’t choke my fowlers.  But, if some folks want to shoot compounds and choke their flintlocks, I suppose that’s their business.  In our culture, we always talk about getting better technology to kill at longer ranges.  What if we talked about being better hunters instead?

Other than that, I'm with bob in the woods.  I want my patterns to open early.  That's because I'm a lousy shot, and I'm perfectly capable of missing a turkey at 20 yards.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 08:58:38 PM by Jose Gordo »

B Staley

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2017, 11:57:30 PM »
On my 12 gauge Caywood I get good patterns at 30 yards using 1 .25 oz of 6 shot over equal volume of 1 f powder with 2 fiber wads over powder. Yes and it's jug choke.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 12:40:12 AM »
I have customers that use loads up to 2 3/8oz to 2 1/2oz for a properly jugged 12 bore and something like 120-130gr powder, I'm sure they're using 1 or 2 F. Some are using copper plated mix of 4's and 6's, some even use a commercial buffer. Those loads should give you killing shots out to 50 yards, even better than a modern shotgun's performance. Use a rear sight. Those loads are way past my ability in tolerating punishment these days, but they are very lethal on turks.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 12:42:35 AM by Mike Brooks »
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2017, 12:43:20 AM »
The 20 bore I pictured in the other thread- might have been in gun building forum, has an improved cylinder choke, not quite modified. It shoots almost full choke patterns at 25/20 yards, incredibly tight even patterns for head density shooting.  I use 1 to 1 1/16" oz. shot and 65gr. 2F, 1/8" "B" wad, 1/2" donna-conna (lubed or not) then shot - thin card over shot. That load powders clay birds & would be super on turkey heads to 30yards, I'm sure.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 12:44:26 AM by Daryl »
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2017, 12:43:53 AM »
My only question is if you can't live within the limitations of a muzzleloaders  range, and velocity, why do you hunt with them? Standard hunting range for turkeys, with a modern shotgun is 40 yards. IMO trying to get a muzzleloader to perform at that range, and still call yourself an ethical sportsman is kind of a stretch.

  Hungry Horse
If ethics are the issue just throw a stick...... :o
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Joe S

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 01:21:20 AM »
Quote
If ethics are the issue just throw a stick..

LOL.  Been there, done that - I once tried to boomerang a goose.  Now I'm off topic and a moderator is going to get after me.

I shoot only nickle plated shot.  I have no intention of casting my own shot out of soft lead. 

gumboman - if you're not shooting plated shot, give it a try.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2017, 01:44:36 AM »
I think the ethical range of a thown stick is about ten yards, same issue different weapon.

  Hungry Horse

galudwig

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2017, 02:09:29 AM »
My only question is if you can't live within the limitations of a muzzleloaders  range, and velocity, why do you hunt with them? Standard hunting range for turkeys, with a modern shotgun is 40 yards. IMO trying to get a muzzleloader to perform at that range, and still call yourself an ethical sportsman is kind of a stretch.

  Hungry Horse

I knew this response was forthcoming. I got similar drivel last year when I asked if jug choking would improve smoothbore patterning consistency out to 35 yards. I'll never understand why someone who has nothing useful to add to a conversation decides it's useful to question someone else's ethics...  >:(

Offline wattlebuster

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2017, 03:12:37 AM »
I have 2 12 ga flintlocks that are jug choked full. One has a 30 inch barrel an the other is a 32 inch barrel. I tried many different combos thru them an can tell you that you will have to do the same as all barrels digest loads differently. Your barrel will let you know when you find the magic load. Its time consuming but gives you time to burn lots of powder.  I can tell you a few common denominators that applies to my 2 barrels. Your mileage may an probably will vary. First was both my barrels seemed to like Fg powder better than FF. Second both my barrels likes 3 maybe 4 thin cardboard overpowder wads. I use the same for overpowder and overshot an cut them myself from cereal boxes. An just 1 thin overshot card. When I tried the thick fiber wads they blew every pattern. Both my barrels like the copper plated shot. I use 4s an im a firm believer in the old saying less powder more lead shoots far kills dead. Stick with 4s an keep your shots under 40 an you will be plucking feathers. Good luck to ya
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2017, 03:32:21 AM »
I have had a couple jug coked 12 bore barrels myself. I found them very forgiving. I could stuff just about any kind of cards and wads and powder and shot combos in them and the would work. One had .005 for skeet and the other had .015 for upland hunting. Interesting point with the .005 choke is it just filled the middle in perfect. While it was cylinder bore it always shot a dognut.....not a great pattern for skeet. :o
 I may blaspheme here, but I don't believe all jug chokes are not created equal. Some guys know how to cut a good jug and some don't. Results seem to vary between machinists.
I just had .045 put in the next 10 bore I had done. The jugger recommends only taking head shots under 30 yards if you want any meat left. Several customers have mentioned this to me over the past 30 years, same guy jugged them all.....just saying. ;)
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Offline smallpatch

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2017, 08:39:31 AM »
10ga, 1 ½ oz of #6 shot, 130g ffg, 50yards, jug choked modified. Just sayin.
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2017, 09:51:16 AM »
That target might show range, but not velocity. I still doubt a muzzleloader will consistently make ethical kills at that range.

 Hungry Horse

Offline gumboman

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2017, 04:20:17 PM »
Mike Brooks thanks for the humor. You so often can come through with some rib tickling input. Keep it coming.

Thanks to all who provided positive and useful information. That is what I knew I would get from most forum members. That gives me lots of things to try. Will definitely try the copper plated shot.

The thick fiber wads blew my patterns too. Found just one over powder card gave best patterns.

Smallpatch, that is a very impressive 50 yard pattern and is what I think I can achieve from my 12 bore after a little load development.

I emailed Colerain about the 2 oz shot load and 100 grain powder and the reply was no problem except for the potential recoil. But recoil does not bother me.

I will also try using a shot cup instead of over powder cards. Might be able to get 55 yard patterns or more.

Offline Mauser06

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2017, 05:46:12 PM »
If you're shopping for shot, look into nickel plated...A little more cost..But supposed to be a harder pellet. 




Also like was said...The velocity and energy is unknown. Unless you chronograph it.

2oz is 875gr.   Factor in wads and buffer if you use it and you're shooting like 900grs...I don't know what the velocity might be. You might have the pattern...But do you have the energy to consistently and humanely take down a turkey?   


I'm not a gambling man. 

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2017, 06:55:30 PM »
Ref " shot cup ", do you mean "plastic"    Watch out for plastic deposits in your barrel.  I have made my own out of card stock, which worked fine.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2017, 08:42:39 PM »
You can use a hillbilly chronograph, put a soup can( not an aluminum beer can) out there, and if you punch holes in it, your good to go. If not rethink your ethics perameters.

  Hungry Horse

Joe S

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2017, 01:33:36 AM »
If you don't have a soup can, I'd be happy to loan you my chronograph.



.54 caliber, in case you're wondering how big the hole is...

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2017, 02:04:08 AM »
  Maybe the fifty yard thing is important. But if it was me I'd practice my turkey calling. Never shot a turkey yet past twenty yards. An that is a rarity. If your interested p.m. me an I'll tell yeah. It will give yeah a good laugh but it works.  Oldtravler

Offline wattlebuster

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Re: Turkey Hunting Loads
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2017, 02:26:56 AM »
Jose I just have to ask ::) Did you have to trail it any. By the looks of that hole I would say it went down right there. I have a friend that done the same thing except with a pistol but it was just as ruined
Nothing beats the feel of a handmade southern iron mounted flintlock on a cold frosty morning