Copying an Original Fowler – First Build

[alex e.]

Did anyone notice the size of that breechplug?

[Mike Brooks]

That is quite a bolster!

[Jay Oliver]

Ed, I do have that book ordered and should have it this week, thanks for the recommendation

On the wood for the stock, is it possible to kiln dry recently cut/green wood?  Or is it just a matter of waiting.  If am interested in using this wood for a latter project should I go ahead and have it cut?  I probably can look that up.

Mike and Eric you mentioned my original gun looked like it had a Siler lock.  Would this be from the 1960's?  Should I be worried about what I bought?  I am sure that effects desirability and value as far as it being original.  The person I bought this gun from approximated the date from 1770-1790.

Thanks, Jay

[Mike Brooks]

Siler locks are still being made today. It probably hurts the overall value of the gun since the original is missing. That wood needs to air dry for at least a year before it goes into the kiln.

It is a 1770's to 1790 gun.

Are you sure it has a 7/8" wide barrel breech?

[Eric Kettenburg]

I'm excessively suspicious, so take what I say with that in mind.  The lock is definitely a Siler lock, although the exterior is fairly well done and has been modded to look more correct.  What I find a bit odd is that the internal parts were all aged; why?  They're obviously Siler components and no effort was made to mask that fact, so why age them?  Once I see that work has been done on a piece, I immediately begin to wonder what else may have been done.  Nevertheless it is a really graceful, well shaped fowler and looks very appealing.

[Jay Oliver]

Thanks Mike and Eric,  I guess better I know now.  I am a bit disappointed of course and I am tempted to tell the seller, even though I want to keep the gun.  Though I probably would not have bought the gun had I known this.  I do like the shape and feel and everything else.  I do appreciate your expertise and letting me know.

Here is a picture of the breach measurement.  Mike is this the measurement you were talking about?

[Joe S]

Jay

Would you be willing to post a few more of your excellent photographs?  I’d be especially interested in both sides of the butt with the wrist showing, and a view of the back of the butt plate.  Also a good side view of the trigger guard.

One thing that I find particularly interesting is the quality of work on the side plate and trigger guard.  These have obvious asymmetries and uneven filing.  The person who built this gun was an accomplished craftsman, but the quality of work on the metal does not seem to me to match the quality of work on the stock.  I suspect this may just be a difference in expectations for “workman like manner“ then and now. 

The barrel looks like it was blued, and the screw on the left looks like an original while the screw on the right looks modern to me.  Is this correct?

Joe

[Mike Brooks]

Wow, that breech is much smaller than I thought. Guns from this area usually have much bigger breaches.

[Jay Oliver]

Joe,  Thanks for the interest and I'll work on those pictures tonight.  I am not sure about the originality of the side plate screws(especially if the lock is a replacement).  I just don't have the knowledge/expertise.  The barrel looks more browned than blued in person.

I'll post more pictures tonight,

Jay

[Jay Oliver]

Joe, here are some of the pictures you asked for.  I would have liked to have taken them outside in natural light, but this ended up being a long Monday for me.  I hope these help.

[Goo]

I have a good friend who has some big cherry trees that were knocked down on his farm last year by Hurricane Matthew.  What should I look for to see if I could possibly us this wood for the stock

Bottom of the tree, center cut, include the root ball if possible, 2.5  -2.75 inches thick then you wait awhile

[Joe S]

Thank you Jay.  Much appreciated.  This gun is very different from anything I've ever seen before, so I'm curious abot it.

I have a question about the comb.  It looks like just above the junction of the comb and the wrist, there is actually a groove in the comb.  Is that how it is?  Pictures can be deceiving, and I suppose that area could actually be vertical, and not a groove.

[Bob Roller]

Huh?  Siler lock?   

Sure looks like a Siler. The "fly"was my tip off as well as the cast mainspring.
Replacement for a crapped out original we hope.
Bob Roller

[WadePatton]

I have a good friend who has some big cherry trees that were knocked down on his farm last year by Hurricane Matthew.  What should I look for to see if I could possibly us this wood for the stock

Bottom of the tree, center cut, include the root ball if possible, 2.5  -2.75 inches thick then you wait awhile

The longer the better. Heat drying may compromise the wood. The more seasons on it, the more stable it becomes.  One year per inch thickness is the standard rate for air-drying wood. 

It's MUCH faster/easier/surer to purchase a blank from a gun-blank sawyer/seller than to make your own.

[TMerkley]

I'm going to ask a question, it may sound dumb..  Is it a possibility that it was first a rifle and then bored smooth?  I just ask because of the missing rear sight.  Maybe it was a barrel for something else first..

Just thinking

[rich pierce]

New England rifles look very different from the fowling pieces.

[conquerordie]

I know a gentleman that works on antique firearms. He will do compete restorations, or just replace a screw. Its up to the customer. I know dealers he has worked for, as well as curators from museums who have used his services. My point is there are very few 18th century firearms that do not have something replaced. To me this looks to be the case with this fowler. The lock is not the original, but restored with some skill to resemble what should be there. The really small breech also seems odd. The OP said he would not have bought this gun if he new that the lock wasn't original. The same gentleman I mentioned earlier said that unless you ask, dealers will not usually disclose any restoration have been done. Even when you do they might not. Depends on how honest they are. Some of these dealers at shows are just in it for the money, honesty has no place at the table. Just something to think about when buying original pieces.
Greg

[Jay Oliver]

Joe, On the transition from the comb to the wrist I think you could call it grove or more like a concave transition. 

I did use this forum to vent about the lock being replaced on what I thought was an all original piece.  I am glad I know and again it was this forum that has help me get over it.  I am still learning a lot and this was my first pre-1800 gun.  I'll know to look more carefully and ask more questions next time.  I think for what I paid I got a very nice gun.  I am going to attempt to copy this fowler for my first build.

I appreciate the suggestions and advice.  Someone reached out to me who is about an hour away that I am going to meet with next Tuesday(and bring the original gun) to start the process and hopefully learn some things first hand.  They have a few cherry blanks that are long enough and I'll order the barrel, which I know will take awhile. 

I need to keep reading and learning which I will do.

Thanks,

Jay

[Joe S]

Thanks Jay.  I think lots of folks will be interested to see your build as it goes along, so please post pictures.    Even with the replacement lock, it is still a very nice gun.