Too ambitious?

[tddeangelo]

As I plan out a start into gun building, I'm curious what styles are the best to start with? I realize there may well be differing opinions, but I'm curious to hear them.

I'm pretty sure Lehigh and Bucks guns aren't going to be near the top of the list, but curious about styles other than Lancaster that are considerable "attainable" for a new guy? I'm not totally against building a Lancaster, but curious what suggestions folks might give.

The reason for the thread title is that RCA #21 has caught my eye, but I'm thinking an early Berks gun may be too ambitious right out of the gate?

Thanks!

[Joe S.]

Quess it all depends on your skill set and knowing your limitations. I would think real detailed carving would be a stretch unless you really sit down and practice a whole lot before the real thing. Detailed inlets may be a bit tricky for folks new to it.I think it's best to really do a little home work on styles that you like and study the nuances ect.If possible handle some originals!If you really,really like a certain one jump into the deep end and go for it.Only you know if you can pull it off if your honest with yourself.Plenty of good folk here that know their craft and will help you if you ask for it.Good luck!

[tddeangelo]

My personal plan for the first gun is no carvings. I want to focus on getting the various pieces to interact properly....everything aligned correctly, get the architecture as close to right as I can, etc. At most I'd want to try a wooden patch box or a simple brass one, but maybe neither.

RCA21 is a not a heavily carved or adorned gun, but it is a Berks style.

I'm a huge fan of Berks guns, and also a Berks County PA native. I happen to have an early Reading gun as well as a later Reading/Berks style gun, contemporary rifles, that I own and shoot. So I have some well-made examples to reference in-hand. Not originals, but they're solid examples for reference.

But my personal goal is the layout and architecture. The carving on 21 is pretty minimal, too.

I've just heard a lot that Lancasters are best for beginners. I sure don't intend to dive in to a Lehigh out of the gate, but 21 seems like it'd be attainable.

I guess worse comes to worse, if I bungle it up pretty good, I use the stock for my kids to make smores in the fire pit and I get a new hunk of maple and try again...?

[rich pierce]

Build what excites you, do your best and enjoy it. 

[oldtravler61]

  Well said Rich.

[PPatch]

Rich is right, go with your heart. Sounds like you have almost talked yourself into a Reading style rifle. Nothing wrong with that and doing a Reading vs. Lancaster style will be pretty much the same amount of research and work. The same with patchbox choice, wood or metal will be about the same amount of work.

Are you thinking pre-carve or building from a plank?

Do make sketches and a full sized drawing, you'll learn a great deal by doing so and the drawings will give you confidence and guide your build right off the bat.

If you decide on some light carving, something like on RCA's 21/22, you must practice the techniques before attempting them for real. That is what I did on my first.

Good luck with the build and it is good that you are researching it, the more you know the better the result should be.

dave

[tddeangelo]

I'll need to practice ANY carving, lol.

I didn't think of sketching, but that is great advice.  Something I can do a lot leading up to actually working on wood and metal.

I am undecided on plank vs precarved at this point.

I should take a run back to Dixon's and see if I can chat with Greg Dixon (he wasn't there when I was there yesterday). I think I'd ideally like what he has there now.... a plank with the outline cut, barrel inlet, and ramrod channel/hole done.

What he has there now is a swamped B-weight Colerain 50 cal x 42" with a coned muzzle on what looks to be a pretty plain piece of wood. The price seems pretty good for what it is. The barrel looks to have pretty deep round-grooved rifling.

If that's something he can get for me on a semi-regular basis, that's my preference. If not before, I can probably find something or someone who can get me something like that when I go to the gunmaker's fair in July.

Something like that won't be a kit, so I'll need to make sure I know what I'm looking for in parts....lock, trigger guard, buttplate, etc. I figure I can be doing that as opportunity presents itself alongside getting tools and workspace issues sorted out.

I have no timeline on this, which means I don't need to get in a hurry. I've learned before that haste is expensive.

[Mike Brooks]

NW trade gun.

[Frank]

NW trade gun.

Yep, or Early English Trade gun or Carolina gun.

[A.Merrill]

Build what you like, it will keep you interested in what your doing. It does not mater what  you build Lancaster,  Berks, Bucks or The architecture should be right for the style gun your building and most of all your inletting should have no gaps. If your just starting out you may want to practice inletting and worry about carving and engraving later.   Al

[tddeangelo]

I was not planning to carve or engrave on the first build.

I was thinking of getting scraps to practice on and see if I could get the hang of some simple carving, but I intend to be focused on layout and fundamentals first.

Doing a bit more digging, I've taken a liking to the Chambers smooth rifle kit.

Would be different than what I already own and I like the aesthetics of it. A smoothie would bring more hunting options to the table for me too.

[Tim Crosby]

 Have you watched this:

  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31173.0

 It may give you a direction.

Thanks Again Mike.

  Tim C.

[PPatch]

I was not planning to carve or engrave on the first build.

I was thinking of getting scraps to practice on and see if I could get the hang of some simple carving, but I intend to be focused on layout and fundamentals first.

Doing a bit more digging, I've taken a liking to the Chambers smooth rifle kit.

Would be different than what I already own and I like the aesthetics of it. A smoothie would bring more hunting options to the table for me too.

There's an idea! 

[tddeangelo]

Have you watched this:

  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31173.0

 It may give you a direction.

Thanks Again Mike.

  Tim C.

Have had it saved to my desktop for a little while now.

[tddeangelo]

I was not planning to carve or engrave on the first build.

I was thinking of getting scraps to practice on and see if I could get the hang of some simple carving, but I intend to be focused on layout and fundamentals first.

Doing a bit more digging, I've taken a liking to the Chambers smooth rifle kit.

Would be different than what I already own and I like the aesthetics of it. A smoothie would bring more hunting options to the table for me too.

There's an idea! 

I was resistant to a smooth rifle for a while, but the idea has been slowly growing on me for a little while now. I sort of chalked it up to a "next one" status, until I got to talking with someone else who has a fowler. And the idea took root....a smooth rifle would give me options to do things like squirrel hunting with shot (and other small game), possibly turkeys (although I'm a terrible turkey hunter), and I have more than a few deer stands for our late flintlock season where a reach of 50 yards or so will be more than sufficient, so with a patched ball that could/should be doable, I'd think?

Still a Lancaster connection, which interests the PA native in me....and more attainable than starting from a plank.

[WadePatton]

If you're not already good at it, you need to get good at sharpening tools for carving or engraving. 

If you get the gun you want put together as well as you'd like for it to be, AND are yet hesitant to carve or engrave as the style dictates, then you might consider hiring that work done.  A bit like splitting up work in the gun-making industry of olde, but not all "in house".  You'd still have to finish it and all.

Won't be cheap, gleefully pay or do it yourself.  Maybe this opens up some options for ya. Have fun.

[tddeangelo]

Would something like the Smooth Rifle kit require any carving or engraving? I realize this is somewhat up to interpretation, although the pics on the site showing a completed sample show it with no carving or engraving.

My understanding is that kit is based of the work of John Newcomer, so I could, as I lead up to this, research the carvings his work would have had, and practice on scrap wood. I wouldn't be opposed to developing that, although my priority setting out was shaping/lines/etc.

My first build I will always keep. Just cuz.

Subsequent rifles I may find homes for. I have some long term goals here, but the initial effort is to build a functional rifle that shows some promise for future builds. I am fully prepared for things to not be perfect, but I'll get it as close as I can!

[Darkhorse]

You already own 2 very fine rifled long rifles so I would be thinking along the lines of a smoothbore of some kind. I'm not sure about a smooth rifle but I am considering a fowler of some kind as my next build.
Being a non-artist who knows better than trying to carve or engrave a firearm, I would buy a grade or 2 higher in the wood. Sometimes carving seems to cover up the beauty of the wood. To me a fine curled piece of maple with a really great finish is more appealing than a lot of carving. I would worry about form, fit and function first. Decoration later.