.25 caliber rifle

[willyr]

Levy,
    Have you had a chance yet to shoot your .25 caliber with the no. 3 buckshot? Just interested in how it shot with the larger shot. The wheels have been turning since you first posted about yout .25 and I know I'll have one myself eventually.
Be Well,
Bill Ridout

[northmn]

I do not have mine built yet but a 1/4 inch bolt will fall down the bore.  I plan on starting with #3 buckshot for that reason.  It would take a polished 1/4 inch ramrod (slightly to undersize).

DP

[Daryl]

Seems to me, someone posted the .25 cal barrels were made slightly oversize in the bore to allow the use of 1/4" rods.   Taylor's .25 hasn't arrived yet - I am looking forward to having a peek down it's tiny bore.
  When kids, we made 'ship's' cannons with .25" bores as well as one rifled cannon I made from a piece of .22 barrel.  I cut off .22 cal 40gr. bullets, hammered then down a bit to fit and shot those from the .22's bore. I think I was 10 or 12. Does that mean we've been shooting muzzleloaders, even rifles for almost 50 years? :

[Levy]

When I talked to Ed Rayl he said that the barrels were .255 to allow a 1/4" metal rod to be used.  It also means that the use of #3 buckshot is a distinct possibility.  This squirrel season I harvested over 30 squirrels with my .25 cal. flintlock.  I used 20 grs. of 3fff Goex, #4 buckshot and a .017 patch with Ox-Yoke lube.  If I cleaned all of the petroleum oil out of it before shooting and wiped the bore with Ox-Yoke, then I didn't have any trouble with fouling out (we're damp down this way).  Unfortunately, I haven't tried the #3 buckshot yet, but still plan on it.  I would also like to try some .020 thick patches with the #4 buckshot. ED Rayl suggested 30 grs. of 3fff in the 1 turn in 48" barrel.  I like using a loading block with these small bullets.  So much to do and so little time to do it all.

James Levy 

[willyr]

James,
    Thank you for responding. I have fired many thousands of shots from small caliber muzzleloaders- from .32 caliber thru .40 caliber- and I have never had one that didn.t like a fairly tight patch/ball combination. I am absolutely intrigued with the idea of a .25 caliber squirrel rifle.
Be Well,
Bill Ridout

[billd]

Has anyone run one of these .25's thru a cronograph with 30 grains of 3f?  Must be movin' right well.  I have one of Ed's barrels ordered. I was thinking more like 15 grains.

Bill

[Kermit]

I've got one of Ed's .25s too. Mark Wheland built the gun for me using a small Siler with a brass (bronze) lockplate. I'd had the barrel and the lock for a while before getting it into Mark's hands. I'm shooting #4 buck with .018 ticking and 20 grains of FFFg.

I have no idea how fast that wee pea is moving. Someone described a .25 as like a .22 short magnumized. I'd try 25 or 30 grains of powder, but I'm not sure I can handle the increased recoil. 

[Levy]

It sounds like Kermit and I are doing almost the same thing with our loads.  I think 20 grs. of 3fff is pushing it about 1,600 fps.  I would think 30 grs. would have to be getting close to 2,000 fps (just my guess).  I'm glad someone else is afraid of the recoil at 30 grs. too.  I didn't want to be the only wimp in the bunch.  I want to hear from someone who tries the #3 buckshot and the 30 grs. of 3fff.  I can't get out right now.

James Levy

[Roger Fisher]

It sounds like Kermit and I are doing almost the same thing with our loads.  I think 20 grs. of 3fff is pushing it about 1,600 fps.  I would think 30 grs. would have to be getting close to 2,000 fps (just my guess).  I'm glad someone else is afraid of the recoil at 30 grs. too.  I didn't want to be the only wimp in the bunch.  I want to hear from someone who tries the #3 buckshot and the 30 grs. of 3fff.  I can't get out right now.

James Levy

Recoil with 30 3f     Holy canolies, what recoil    Hmmm how skinny is that barrel?

[Kermit]

Mine's an "A" weight barrel. Pretty skinny. At 44" long and only 1/4" bored out of it, it's surprisinglly heavier than one would think. Good thing, otherwise the recoil would be unbearable for an old guy like me!

Didn't someone post some pics of a .25 with one of Ed's 48" barrels?

I'd post some pics, but haven't taken the time to figure out how that's done on this site...

[Levy]

Kermit and I are obviously kidding about the recoil from these rifles, which of course is nil.  I don't know what weight barrel my gun has (could be A weight), but it is 48" in length and Dennis Glazener did post some pictures of the rifle, which was made by Billy Harkins in Blairsville, GA.  The rifle weighs in at 9.2 lbs. (not a particularly light rifle with that small bore).

James Levy

[billd]

Hey Levy,   
It sounded like you and Kermit had Roger believing you  , and now you went and ruined it

[Leatherbelly]

   I thought a .40 was a pea shooter!

[Daryl]

I have enough trouble handling .40's - don't know how I'd manage with .25's??? - and cold. calused slippery fingers?

[Levy]

Daryl....you virtually have to use a bullet board with these .25's otherwise, I'd have #4 buckshot all over the ground in the woods where I hunt.  You can load them one at a time on the range, but even that's very difficult.  My fingers become less nimble every year that passes.

James Levy

[northmn]

I have been wondering if 4f might not work in this small of a bore.  It would likely self prime unless one blocked the vent with a pic while loading.  Glad you mentioned recoil, I may include widening the buttplate in my plans.  I ordered the 3/4 inch straight barrel and it was surprisingly weighty.  Will be a bit before i get it built.

DP

[Bob F]

Someone gave me a formula for finding a good load. It is pie x radius squared x length of barrel x 11.5. I did the math for my 42 inch .25 and got 23.7 grains.

[northmn]

I love these mathematical formulas.  What is the basis for the math?  As one with a little math background I question them as the basis is kind of tenuous.  A good load is dependent upon too many variables.  Another good starting point with, less hassle is to use 1/2 the ball weight for a powder charge which would be about 12 grains for a 25.  Some like to use the caliber in grains, (a 25 would then be 25 grains, a 50, 50 grains).  These rules of thumb or formulas work best within a small range of calibers, but are limited for the extremes.  There is one somewhere if I look it up that gives the best barrel length compared to bore diameter (I believe it is for shotguns).  Taylor's stopping power formulas are another set of rather tedious math that favors large bores.  They are likely workable as large bores are very effective.   

DP

[billd]

I thought Bob's formula was to find effective or max burn r
ates.

[Bob F]

That's what I use it for..effective rates.  Surprisingly, when I use the formula it actually comes within 5 grains of the loads that I have found worked best for my rifles.  At least it's a good starting point.

[northmn]

That's what I use it for..effective rates.  Surprisingly, when I use the formula it actually comes within 5 grains of the loads that I have found worked best for my rifles.  At least it's a good starting point.

It probably does, but for what range of calibers?  As mentioned on another thread most of these ideas work for calibers in the 45, 50 , 54 class.  As we get larger or smaller the rules start changing.  I noticed the barrel length variable which probably is good for a range of lengths also, but puts a certain emphasis on barrel length.  My comments were a little sarcastic sounding and I apologize for that.   I get off work at 7:00 AM and read these threads and sometimes am not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.  If it works don't fix it.  The 25 with a 1-48 inch twist and the light ball seems to want pretty hefty powder to ball weight ratios.  I think that is due to the fact that a 1-48 inch twist is about like a 1-96 in a 50, added to the fact that the 25 has a considerably larger surface area to volume ration than a 50.

DP

[northmn]

Another point.  Living in MN I ahve to pay and additional 6.5% for anything I buy out of Track of the Wolf, so I looked at Grafs, in their ML section at the price of buckshot.  They had it, but it was the "magnum" buckshot with antimony added.  Tracks is pure lead.  Generally pure lead can be loaded more accurately.  Whether magnum shot would be less damaging to small game I do not know.

DP 

[Bob F]

No problem...I rememberthe feeling of getting off in theearly AM and walking around in a bit of a daze.  Actually..my kids and wife say I do that sometimes even now......go figure???