Denim Patches

[hanshi]

For quite some time I've been using the thickest mattress ticking I could find to lube and shoot in my flintlocks; it has always and still does work very well.  I cut up a couple pair of old bluejeans into patches quite some time ago.  It's been the better part of a year since I've been able to go to the range and shoot.  Today I did get out with my .50 "custom hybrid" longrifle.  I shot a few rounds with ticking patches and then started using the denim patches.  The barrel is a Rice .50 transitional swamped tube with round bottom rifling.  The denim - when measured with a caliper is very close to the same thickness as the ticking - did, indeed, seat with more protest than the ticking.  However, it was still quite willing to go down with just the wood, underbarrel rod (and it's not even hickory).  I only had time for a few shots so no definitive conclusion as to accuracy, etc, was forthcoming.  It was evident that the sight adjustments do need a bit of attention regardless of which material was used. 

Just curious as to what others who use denim have to say about it.  The barrel crown has had no polishing yet but the indication is that it probably needs smoothing. 

[Daryl]

Hi hanshi - I/we moslty use 10 ounce denim mostly.  This measures .0225" for me using calipers scrunched as tightly as I can between forefinger and thumb.  Tightened up with a mic - hard, it still runs right at .020".  I have used 8 ounce, which runs .020" in my calipers, but not in the .50, only in the .32 with .320 balls in the .008" rifling. 

I use 10 ounce in the Getx .50, swamped w/rounded rifling having wider lands than grooves and it also loads with the whippy rod, although I usually pack a 5/16" stainless rod with guide and cupped jag on the end for trail walks.  Hate to break that beautifully tapered 48" 7/16" to 5/16" rod.

In the .69, I use a .682" pure lead ball with 12 ounce that my calipers measure at .030" and .025 on the mic.  With the 15 bore ball, (.675") I'm using a cloth my buddy gave me, 14 ounce denim which runs .036", .030" on the mic.

I measured the 6 ounce denim at .018" calipers and .016" on the mic - it is too thin for about anything & even too thin for cleaning.  Might make a good snot rag, imho, of course.

[hanshi]

Thanks for the input, Daryl.

[smylee grouch]

It's been a few years since I bought a couple of yards of very tightly woven denim that mikes out to a little over 20/1000 and I use bear lard/grease lube. It shoots great and tight and cleans up nicely with just tap water. I havent been able to find the same stuff since so am looking. I only use this in my hunting rifle so don't use alot but still need to find some more. It works great with the tight  combo that I shoot.

[bgf]

The 10 oz. "Bull Denim" in natural color from JoAnn's shoots great for me.  It's often on sale for 50% off, which makes it about 5$/yard, I think.  Daryl's 0.0225" sound about right.  I use water or spit as lube, sure anything reasonable would work.  Loads easily in my Green mountain and Rice barrels, .40 and .50.  I switched to even heavier art canvas for chunk and table matches normally, but the denim worked pretty well in that application also.  The denim is pretty much all I use for offhand target matches, and I'm certain my shooting is the only limitation to accuracy!

I prefer to buy patching simply because by the time I decomission a pair of jeans, they're in tatters . 

[g2608671@verizon.net]

I just wore out 2 pair of Levis and was going to turn them into shooting bench pillows.  Looks like the re purpose will be re re purposed.  Shoot, could not have used all the material for bench pillows anyhow.
Love it when a plan comes together.

[Daryl]

When I buy a new several meters of material, I run it though the washer, normal cycle for "Active Ware", high spin and second rinse, then run it through a second time, full cycle without soap.  the material softens nicely and usually gains a thou. in thickness.

Some materials will lose a thou or two when the sizing is washed out.

[smylee grouch]

Will the use of used denim jeans for shooting patches give you consistent patch thickness? Areas like knees,front of thighs, and the landing strip seem to be thinner on my used jeans but I tend to get more that usual wear out of my clothes. 

[Hungry Horse]

First off you will find Levi's are usually at least 12oz. Denim rather than 10 oz., so that could be a problem right out of the shoot. Worn material is stressed, making it  inconsistent patch to patch, depending on where on the jeans it came from. Cotton materials strength is compromised by exposure to laundry detergents that don't get totally rinsed out of the material during laundering, and exposure to sunlight over time. So, buy new.

  Hungry Horse

[hanshi]

Levi jeans are 12oz, HH!  I did not know that.  About all my jeans are Levi except for a couple pair of "Faded Glory" which are kept as work pants.  So if I buy 10oz denim it will be a shade thinner than the patches cut from Levis?  Interesting to know.

[Heavies]

I've found a scrap piece of 10oz denim in the bargin bin at Walmart the other day, paid like a $1.  This is great because I didn't want to by a bunch and then find out it wasn't going to work for me. Going to give it a couple washes and try it out too!  If, someday, I get a chance to go to the range... 

[bgf]

Just make sure denim is 100% cotton!  If it burns to ash instead of melting it should be OK.

[Dphariss]

All the ticking I have found recently in fabric stores in made by the commies and is so weak as to be useless. Try tearing it down the stripe. The American made stuff is very difficult to tear in any direction. The commie made stuff is about like the blue paper towels sold for shop use.  I have switched to denim or linen. Linen of decent thickness can be found by searching the WWW and ordering swatches to check. Linen is less compressible and has a higher ignition temp than cotton so a slightly thinner patch may be used to get the same "fit".

Dan

[hanshi]

I measured the thickness of the denim I cut and used.  By using both hands to squeeze the caliper jaws down as hard as I could it read .025".  I consider that to be a nice, generous thickness.  Doing the same thing with the thick "mattress" ticking results in a measurement of .020", indicating the denim is some 25% thicker.

[Natureboy]

  Ditto for me with the 10oz bull denim from JoAnnne's.  I tried a number of other fabrics, like Irish linen, but the bull denim loads well, and when I check the used patches there aren't any holes or scorch marks.  My old denim pants I use for char cloth.

[Daryl]

Old trousers can work, but usually only the backs of the thighs and fronts of the shins- the rest being compromised due to wear.

[hanshi]

I don't have but a little denim left for those jeans I cut up; a trip to JoAnn's should do the trick.  And the fired patches I found could have been used again.

[Leatherbark]

Jo Anns sells a really good canvas that is also around .0215 in thickness.  One of the reasons I like it is because it has the same weave on both sides for those like me who always places the ball on the same side of the patch LOL.

Bob

[Smoketown]

Jo Anns sells a really good canvas that is also around .0215 in thickness.  One of the reasons I like it is because it has the same weave on both sides for those like me who always places the ball on the same side of the patch LOL.

Bob

Ha, Ha, Ha. I thought I was the only one ...   

Dark side up, stripes running North and South (ramrod channel to front sight), sprue up and IF I can see them, the parting lines on the ball to match the stripe.   

Now if I could only see the sights ...

Cheers,
Smoketown

[Daryl]

Jo Anns sells a really good canvas that is also around .0215 in thickness.  One of the reasons I like it is because it has the same weave on both sides for those like me who always places the ball on the same side of the patch LOL.

Bob

Ha, Ha, Ha. I thought I was the only one ...   

Dark side up, stripes running North and South (ramrod channel to front sight), sprue up and IF I can see them, the parting lines on the ball to match the stripe.   

Now if I could only see the sights ...

Cheers,
Smoketown

CONSISTENCY, though art a jewel.

[Ray-Vigo]

I use denim whenever I can - that is whenever the ball-patch fit is not too tight. I've found the denim patches hold up better and give a little bit better accuracy than regular pillow ticking. Point of impact goes up a bit too. If I'm just plinking, I'll re-use previously shot patches sometimes. They survive 3-4 shots and then begin to wear-through. My wife gives me her old blue jeans and I cut them into patches - just have to make sure it's all cotton and not poly. I give a thumbs-up for denim patches certainly.

[hanshi]

Interesting thoughts, Ray.  So far I've only used denim in my RB Rice barrels with their groove depth of .016".  And yes the impact is a bit higher.  I'll soon be trying the denim in square groove bores to see if it can be seated with just a wood, underbarrel rod.  For instance; the .45 - .45" bore + .020" (2)grooves = .47", denim .048" + .440" ball = .488".  This means there will be .018" of compression.  Tight and probably doable.  But the question is; is it too much for a wood rod?

[Daryl]

Depends on your technique and quality of your rod, hanshi. .009" per side is about perfect, good accuracy and a good seal.

I load .682" pure lead ball with .030" (12 ounce denim) patches in my .69 - even tried the .036" (14 ounce denim) & loaded them with the hickory rod.  The thicker ones are WAY over the top,

compression in the groove bottoms-wise. Smack in down inside the muzzle with the short starter and now, except for the longer bearing surface, they are groove diameter. 9/16" to 3/8" rod.

.690 + .024 = .714"
.682 + .060 = .742"  - .028" comp. = .014" comp. each side - these are about perfect and are VERY accurate.
.682 + .072 = .754" -  .040" comp. = .020" comp.  each side - these are a bit tighter than is comfortable loading.

Even the .030" patch is VERY difficult loading if not using very soft lead.

For WW alloys or harder, I use a 15 bore ball, .677", currently, with the 14 ounce denim which I measure at .036", thus the ball + patch is .677" + .072 = .749.  The total compression is ..035 divided by 2 = .0175 per side, which works for a non-freezing hunting load. Freezing weather means paper ctgs. with .682" balls.

I should note, the 15 bore balls, whether pure or hard alloys also shoot well with 12 ounce, or .030" denim. 

A friend gave me 3 yards of 14 ounce, so that is what I am using.

[Hungry Horse]

When I can't get tightly woven linen napkins, or tablecloths, for patching, I like tightly woven cotton  pocket drill. This is available at most fabric stores, in a couple of thicknesses.

  Hungry Horse

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Shirt weight denim is nice for patches if you want something a little lighter....018" thick.  I was lucky to find a woman's floor length skirt of light weight denim in Value Village (local thrift store).  Even though it looked great on me, I decided to cut it up into patch material...it went a long way.  My muzzle loading pistols, especially, like it.