What exactly do I have?

[New Jersey Devil]

Does the trigger work outside of the lock?? 


Post some pics of the trigger.. someone here can likely spot the issue...if there is one.   

Do you mean if I remove the lock does the set trigger and trigger work?   If so, the answer is no.  The set trigger does nothing to the front trigger.   I fidgeted with the tiny screw that I presume is to tighten or loosen the trigger, and while I think it did that a bit, it didnt have an effect of making the trigger work.

Some pictures.




Also, I finally got a small LED light to drop down the barrel, and it's in surprisingly good shape, which was in stark contrast to the filthy condition I found the lock and the internal wood.  All I can speculate is the prior owner cleaned the barrel after each time he shot it, but perhaps was unaware that the lock needs frequent cleaning as well.

[Mauser06]

Have you taken the trigger out of the gun???  It may just be gummed up...


Does the front trigger fire the lock??   



Does the lock work outside of the gun?? 

[New Jersey Devil]

Have you taken the trigger out of the gun??? It may just be gummed up...


Does the front trigger fire the lock??   



Does the lock work outside of the gun??

I havent taken the trigger group out of the gun, I actually dont know how.  I only see 1 screw, and I imagine you need a special screwdriver to access it, as there's < 1/2 inch clearance.  Given how ridiculously filthy the lock was, I'm sure the trigger internals are filthy too.

The front trigger does not fire the lock.

Initially the lock did not fire, but after giving it a good cleaning, it works like a champ outside of the rifle.

[Don Stith]

To get the trigger out of the stock,assuming normal construction, Take off the trigger guard by tapping out the two pins
  Then takeout the tang screw which probably  threads into the trigger bar

 May also be a wood screw in the rear of the trigger bar
 The tiny screw between the triggers adjusts the engagement of the set trigger and the front trigger

 It may just be screwed in too far

[New Jersey Devil]

To get the trigger out of the stock,assuming normal construction, Take off the trigger guard by tapping out the two pins
  Then takeout the tang screw which probably  threads into the trigger bar

 May also be a wood screw in the rear of the trigger bar
 The tiny screw between the triggers adjusts the engagement of the set trigger and the front trigger

 It may just be screwed in too far

Is that what these tiny holes are extreme right and extreme left in the pic, for pins?  They're so small, what do you use to punch them out, and does direction matter or are pins typically symmetrical.

[Don Stith]

You need a pin punch the size of the pins or slightly smaller.  Probably going to be about 1/16" diameter just guessing from the pictures

[Mauser06]

Yep...like Don said, punch those pins. Take the screw out of the barrel tang. Then see what else is holding the trigger plate in.


While you're at it...there's probably a few more pins holding in the barrel...gently tap those out and the barrel will come out of the stock. Just make sure you are careful...make sure you get all the pins out and be gentle. Don't wanna crack the forestock.

There are likely pins holding the ramrod pipes too...can leave those ones alone....



It's all fairly simple and goes back together by tapping the pins in. Just be careful and go slow. 

[New Jersey Devil]

Yep...like Don said, punch those pins. Take the screw out of the barrel tang. Then see what else is holding the trigger plate in.


While you're at it...there's probably a few more pins holding in the barrel...gently tap those out and the barrel will come out of the stock. Just make sure you are careful...make sure you get all the pins out and be gentle. Don't wanna crack the forestock.

There are likely pins holding the ramrod pipes too...can leave those ones alone....

I dont own a tiny punch set, so a trip to Walmart is in order.  Definitely motivated now, because I didn't realize that fouling could make the trigger mechanisms fail.

 I only see 1 hole through the stock (below the rear sight) that might be for the barrel, but it looks like the maker (or someone else) filled those openings in.   Potentially dumb question, but why would I want to take the barrel off?

[Ky-Flinter]

Is that what these tiny holes are extreme right and extreme left in the pic, for pins?  They're so small, what do you use to punch them out, and does direction matter or are pins typically symmetrical.

A 1/16” pin punch should be about right.  Lowe’s, Home Depot or other hardware store should have them.

The pins are normally symmetrical, but I have seen one old gun made in Eastern Ky, that had tapered pins, but it was obvious because the holes were bigger on one side of the gun.

but why would I want to take the barrel off?

Curiosity?  If the barrel maker marked the barrel, the markings will likely be on the bottom of the barrel.  And given the crud build up on the rest of the gun, it’s likely crudded up in the barrel channel, which can be a good environment for rust.  Remove the screw from the barrel tang, then remove all the barrel pins.  I'm guessing there will be at least 3.  Spread a towel on a level surface and place the gun, barrel down, on the towel.  Now raise the butt just an inch or so with one hand, and tap your other hand against the comb of the stock.  The barrel should begin to drop out.  Be careful with the fore-end of the stock, it's fragile and the barrel may be stuck to the wood with crud.

Besides, you should learn all about your gun.  It’s the journey.  Have fun.

-Ron

[New Jersey Devil]

A 1/16” pin punch should be about right.  Lowe’s, Home Depot or other hardware store should have them.

I bought a set of Stanley today at Walmart that has a 1/16" punch, and I'll give it a go this weekend.

 Remove the screw from the barrel tang, then remove all the barrel pins.  I'm guessing there will be at least 3.

Gave it a close look with a light, and there are 4 holes for the barrel, but they're all filled in on both sides.  Of all the pin holes, these are the only holes on the rifle that were filled-in, so the maker definitely did it on purpose.  Do some makers choose to do this with the barrel for some reason, or is this unusual?

[Ky-Flinter]

NJD,

I'd leave the barrel as she is then, unless a compelling reason arises.  Can you tell what the holes are filled with?  I use beeswax on pins that get loose, but it is easily pushed out of the way and replaced as needed.

-Ron

[New Jersey Devil]

I'd leave the barrel as she is then, unless a compelling reason arises.  Can you tell what the holes are filled with?  I use beeswax on pins that get loose, but it is easily pushed out of the way and replaced as needed.
-Ron

I just lightly touched one with a toothpick, and it is a soft material, like a putty or a wax.  I didn't really notice them before, as he must have colored it to match the maple or used something very close in color.

[Don Stith]

I bought a set of Stanley today at Walmart that has a 1/16" punch, and I'll give it a go this weeken
[/quote]
 Okay the weekend is almost over.  What did you learn?

[New Jersey Devil]

   What did you learn?

Nothing.   

The front hole I couldn't budge the pin a milliliter, and I didnt want to wack it any harder than I already was as I was afraid I may create a crack given I was tapping with a small hammer pretty hard.  The real hole swallowed my Stanley punch in the stock, I could touch the pin, but couldnt tap it out since it was up to the neck of the 1/16" punch.  I would have needed a longer punch.

Only other thing I can report is when the lock is in full cock, pulling the front trigger blade does nothing, and pulling the rear trigger blade (the one that looks like the letter "C") does nothing.  Oddly though, if you push the rear "C" trigger blade forward from behind the lock fires immediately.

[Mike Brooks]

You need to take that gun apart and fix it. Who ever you hire to do it is going to do the same thing. It really isn't hard, I do it every day.

[New Jersey Devil]

It really isn't hard, I do it every day.

Then do you have any advice on how to get a pin out that isn't budging short of enough force required that you'd need the son of Jor-El?  Without doing damage.

[Smoketown]

Look online at the pin punches in the Brownells catalog.

Depending on the width oh the stock and the length of the pins, you may need longer pin punches.

Pictures are always a good thing. Punches stock etc.

Cheers,
Smoketown

[Mike Brooks]

It really isn't hard, I do it every day.

Then do you have any advice on how to get a pin out that isn't budging short of enough force required that you'd need the son of Jor-El?  Without doing damage.

I don't know Jor-El or his son....
 You need a vise to hold the gun securely so it isn't flopping all over the kitchen table and use a couple sturdy props on either side of the vise  so the gun hanging in thin air out past the vise. Line the vice jaws with some leather and don't crush the stock when you tighten it up. You want it snug but not too tight. Get a punch to match the pin size and drive out the pins. This is ancient technology, it ain't hard.

[Don Stith]

Should be obvious that you need a punch long enough to go at least half of the way through the  width of the stock       Using a punch bigger  than the diameter of the pin will bottom out on the trigger guard lug.

  You don't need Kal-El's Xray vision to see that  With a punch that doesn't have enough length you would have to hit hard enough to crush the wood. As a minimum you have to move the pin far enough to get hold of the end with pliers and pull it out.
 Pushing on the back of the rear trigger should trip the sear.

[PPatch]

I bought an extra long shanked 1/16th mild steel punch from Ace Hardware a few months ago, maybe see if they have one. I use it to drive pins.

dave

[New Jersey Devil]

 Pushing on the back of the rear trigger should trip the sear.

Any speculation as to why that mode would work crisp and fine, but regular set trigger and trigger dont work the normal way?

[New Jersey Devil]

I bought an extra long shanked 1/16th mild steel punch from Ace Hardware a few months ago, maybe see if they have one. I use it to drive pins.

dave

I've tried Ace, Lowes, Home Depot, and a local yocal all to no avail.  Throwing in the towel and ordering one online today.

What's the brand on your long shanked punch?

[Don Stith]

 Pushing on the back of the rear trigger should trip the sear.

Any speculation as to why that mode would work crisp and fine, but regular set trigger and trigger dont work the normal way?

You had expressed the thought that pushing on the rear of the rear trigger tripping the sear was an anomaly

 Hence my post that it was normal for that to happen
  That does not mean it is the way a set trigger should be used

  Several possibilities on why it is not working  The engagement adjustment screw may be too far in to allow the rear trigger to "set"
  The spring on the front trigger may be broken,or junk is interfering with its range of travel so it is not engaging the rear trigger when trying to place it in set position
 Perhaps someone else can get more basic on the operation of a set trigger but you need to get it out of the stock so it is possible to see which of the various designs you have.

[EC121]

I use a military .45 pistol disassembly punch, but a proper sized nail with the point ground flat will work.  Try hitting it a few times on one side then switching sides.  It will eventually loosen up.