Author Topic: Cleaning powder chambers  (Read 15979 times)

Offline yellowhousejake

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Cleaning powder chambers
« on: April 27, 2017, 06:19:44 AM »
I have my first rifle with a powder chamber or patent breech, How are others getting those cleaned? Currently I use a .375 brush and while that seems to work, trying to oil the chamber after cleaning is a problem. Removing the oil before shooting is not much better. I thought about making a  split jag to hold the patch in the reduced diameter of the chamber. Currently I use a patch wrapped brush but some patches come off in the bore and getting them out requires a worm.

I claan the bore with a drilled through nipple and a sucker tube and bottle. Works fine, has for decades. But oiling the chamber after cleaning, and then de-oiling before shooting, is a problem for me.

Is there a better way I am just too dense to see?

Thanks,

DAve
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 06:20:33 AM by yellowhousejake »

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2017, 03:35:45 PM »
I use a slotted tip on my cleaning rod with a smaller cotton flannel patch to get down into the chamber.

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2017, 03:46:58 PM »
Maybe I live under a rock but I have not heard of a Patent Breech for years.  Just saying.... 

You already have a good reply and I agree with what has been said.  But I would add that whatever process you use do not include old T-shirt material in any way.  Folds over on itself and has a tendency to get stuck.  Well - that's my experience with it anyhow..

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2017, 04:46:37 PM »
Hi Dave, 

I too think the slotted jag is the answer. 

Some folks use a bristle brush of the correct size to brush out this area.  I'd use a nylon brush so as to never stick a brush in there.

Cabela's sells some pipe cleaners that have a barbed, plastic core.  These snake into the flash channel really well for me for cleaning that area.   

Once I have flushed my gun's breech/barrel, I blow a little compressed air down the threaded nipple hole to blow out the moisture.  I then spray a little Rem Oil down the same hole.  It is very thin, and evaporates leaving a light film.  Popping a cap or two before shooting seems to blow anything left right out. 

Store your rifle muzzle down, or at least horizontal.  You don't want preservative to settle in the breech and harden.  Ask me how I know. 

A tip of the hat to Daryl and Taylor for patient advice on my percussion breech issue.  Once they weigh in on this post, believe what they say. 

I hope this helps.  Best wishes, and God Bless,   Marc

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2017, 06:12:33 PM »
The patent breaches that I have seen are less than 5/16" more like 9/32" in diameter so that 3/8" brush is not getting down to the end. I'd use a 1/4" to a .270 nylon brush with a patch wrapped around it.
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline Daryl

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2017, 11:35:15 PM »
Only way to get them spotlessly clean, is to take the barrel off the stock and dunk the breech end in a conainter of water.  I use a 2-quart stainless bucket I bought at Princess Auto. An empty plastic Folgers coffee can works just about as well.

A folded wet flannellette patch is wet then placed over the muzzle, then a jag of the appropriate size is centred on that folded patch and this shoved to the breech, then pulled up to the muzzle so water is sucked into the bore (through empty nipple seat or vent), once the water it up to the patched jag at the muzzle, the whole works is shoved down with force, blasting water and crud out of the barrel - repeat about 20 times and the barrel is clean and they water is slightly greyish in colour. If it is black, you ball and patch combination sucks - is too loose.  The only fouling buildup that should be in the bore, is that in the breech or patent breech area where the patched ball does not clean it when is is loaded.

After pulling the patch out of the bore, the barrel is dried with a towel, then dry- patched out - usually takes 4 or maybe 5 patched to dry the bore. The last couple patches should be harder to pull our then really hard to withdraw from the now bone-dry bore.  I then liberally spray WD40 down the bore until it runs out the vent or nipple seat, then run a doubled clean patch down the bore, blasting excess WD40 out the vent or nipple seat- run that patch up and down several times, then pull it out and use it to wipe down the outside of the bore.

Thus - to "properly" (for me) clean a barrel, takes 5 or 6 patches only - which are reusable if you want. Thus, due to the flushing action of the water, the breech area, no matter what type, is clean and dry, with the WD40 blasting out any residual moisture. Works for US.
Daryl

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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 01:26:20 AM »
Only way to get them spotlessly clean, is to take the barrel off the stock and dunk the breech end in a conainter of water.  I use a 2-quart stainless bucket I bought at Princess Auto. An empty plastic Folgers coffee can works just about as well.

A folded wet flannellette patch is wet then placed over the muzzle, then a jag of the appropriate size is centred on that folded patch and this shoved to the breech, then pulled up to the muzzle so water is sucked into the bore (through empty nipple seat or vent), once the water it up to the patched jag at the muzzle, the whole works is shoved down with force, blasting water and crud out of the barrel - repeat about 20 times and the barrel is clean and they water is slightly greyish in colour. If it is black, you ball and patch combination sucks - is too loose.  The only fouling buildup that should be in the bore, is that in the breech or patent breech area where the patched ball does not clean it when is is loaded.

After pulling the patch out of the bore, the barrel is dried with a towel, then dry- patched out - usually takes 4 or maybe 5 patched to dry the bore. The last couple patches should be harder to pull our then really hard to withdraw from the now bone-dry bore.  I then liberally spray WD40 down the bore until it runs out the vent or nipple seat, then run a doubled clean patch down the bore, blasting excess WD40 out the vent or nipple seat- run that patch up and down several times, then pull it out and use it to wipe down the outside of the bore.

Thus - to "properly" (for me) clean a barrel, takes 5 or 6 patches only - which are reusable if you want. Thus, due to the flushing action of the water, the breech area, no matter what type, is clean and dry, with the WD40 blasting out any residual moisture. Works for US.

This is the method I used on bolster breech rifles. I used warm water soluble cutting oil and then a patch with sperm oil.
Before loading any patent breech gun,put a dry patch in the muzzle and fire a cap or maybe two of them and if the patch
blows away then load and fire.

Bob Roller

Offline Jimbows

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2017, 01:57:57 AM »
Hello,first post here. Do you have to clean out the wd40 before you shoot the rifle again after cleaning? I have flintlock not cap. Thank You

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2017, 02:23:17 AM »
Hello,first post here. Do you have to clean out the wd40 before you shoot the rifle again after cleaning? I have flintlock not cap. Thank You

First off WD 40 is not a good rust preventative.
ANY oil in the bore needs to be allowed to drain out the muzzle by setting the firearm muzzle down for at least a few hours. I like over night.
If you are worried use some alcohol to dry the bore. But the muzzle down technique works well with light weight oils. If its something viscous or something that dries to a grease then use at least a dry patch. If loading for hunting, loaded for hours or more, wipe the bore with patch wet with alcohol then wipe dry.

Dan
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Offline bgf

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2017, 03:29:08 AM »
Daryl's procedure is mine, more or less, too.  I can vouch for his observations on dirtiness of water versus suitability of load, as well, as I have been using a thin patch with some oversized balls on my offhand rifle in order to use them up, and the water is black, whereas with my normal load the water is just grey with all other factors being equal.

I debreeched my 40 cal. flintlock Chunk and table barrel after a couple of seasons and it was clean as a whistle. I peeked in my 50 Cal barrel while changing touchhole liner with same result.  Patent breeches with hooks.

Wd40 works for me, especially if I'm shooting every two weeks or so.  Even if a barrel goes several months, it seems to protect well enough.  For more than that, there's cosmolene...

I always wipe wd40 out with alcohol and patch just before shooting.

Offline yellowhousejake

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2017, 03:40:01 AM »
Thank you all for the answers, a split jag it will be then. The rifle is a Pedersoli Whitworth and the chamber 3/8", a 375 brush cleans it nicely, but drying it is the problem.

I have always cleaned percussion rifles (I do not own a flinter, yet) with a bored out nipple which I push a vinyl hose over and drop the other end into a jug of steaming hot water. It takes but a few pumps with a wet patch to clean the bore and flash channel. When I am happy it is clean, the water and patches are clean, I use some fresh hot water through the bore, when the barrel is warm it drys fast and takes the oil. I used to only use VVL-800 light weapons oil. I can highly recommend it, but my supply is low. I recently started using straight Balistol and I am very happy with it so far. I only use thick flannel patches. Find it on sale at the fabric store and I can take five bucks worth and make over 500 patches in a hour with my wife's roller cutter and ruler. She is a very understanding woman.

I've been reading lately on here about storing muzzle down. I have never had a problem but I store my barrels pretty dry, good oil lets you do that. I am thinking about switching to muzzle down anyway now.

I appreciate the help.

DAve


Offline Standing Bear

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2017, 05:00:46 AM »
Only way to get them spotlessly clean, is to take the barrel off the stock and dunk the breech end in a conainter of water.  I use a 2-quart stainless bucket I bought at Princess Auto. An empty plastic Folgers coffee can works just about as well.

A folded wet flannellette patch is wet then placed over the muzzle, then a jag of the appropriate size is centred on that folded patch and this shoved to the breech, then pulled up to the muzzle so water is sucked into the bore (through empty nipple seat or vent), once the water it up to the patched jag at the muzzle, the whole works is shoved down with force, blasting water and crud out of the barrel - repeat about 20 times and the barrel is clean and they water is slightly greyish in colour. If it is black, you ball and patch combination sucks - is too loose.  The only fouling buildup that should be in the bore, is that in the breech or patent breech area where the patched ball does not clean it when is is loaded.

After pulling the patch out of the bore, the barrel is dried with a towel, then dry- patched out - usually takes 4 or maybe 5 patched to dry the bore. The last couple patches should be harder to pull our then really hard to withdraw from the now bone-dry bore.  I then liberally spray WD40 down the bore until it runs out the vent or nipple seat, then run a doubled clean patch down the bore, blasting excess WD40 out the vent or nipple seat- run that patch up and down several times, then pull it out and use it to wipe down the outside of the bore.

Thus - to "properly" (for me) clean a barrel, takes 5 or 6 patches only - which are reusable if you want. Thus, due to the flushing action of the water, the breech area, no matter what type, is clean and dry, with the WD40 blasting out any residual moisture. Works for US.


👍👍. Been doing it this way 40 odd years.  Flat plug drum n nipple get hose and flinters get a tooth pick and soak.  Store in safe muzzle up. A little alcohol and bang.

Only problem I ever had was w Ballistol. Bad rust took a LOT of elbow grease w steel wool, valve grinding compound etc.  Someone said Ballistol was still cleaning- BS red is iron oxide, RUST. If still
leaning   P it would be black or grey.
Nothing is hard if you have the right equipment and know how to use it.  OR have friends who have both.

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Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2017, 05:10:36 AM »
My solution was to sell the rifle. I really can't stand that breach set up. For what I do, a flat surfaced , polished breach face works like a charm. I've coned a couple , just to see if there was much of a difference , [ customer's request ] but after dry balling once, one came back for retrofit . 

Offline hanshi

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2017, 07:03:29 PM »
I don't like guns with any kind of patent breech; but I can live with them and have not experienced a problem traceable back to the patent breech.  Currently, I have only one rifle with a patent breech.  For cleaning I clean a usual and use a small bore mop to clean out the channel from the inside.  Then I'll use pipe cleaners to clean from the outside through the bolster.

I use Barricade for rust protection or occasionally "BreakFree CLP".  Guns are stored horizontally with the muzzle angled downward.  WD40 is used as part of the cleaning process but not as a rust inhibitor.  It may help for a short while but I'm aware of numerous failures of WD40 in the past.
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Offline bgf

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2017, 09:58:44 PM »
I thought long and hard before using a flint hooked patent breech on my chunk gun, but the ability to change barrels easily was a desirable feature.  The speed and reliability has exceeded my wildest expectations, probably due to coning the chamber mouth and drilling good-sized passage from liner to chamber.  I think a lot of problems are caused in patent breech percussion guns by making passages too small.  I have very rare flash in pan, which another pick of vent fixes, but at this point have waited at many chunk relays for percussion rifles to go off.  Often they end up pulling the ball.  More than once, I've seen them drop out of match after multiple fouled rounds.  All I mean to say is that patent breeches do work, but bad implementation of design can cause problems.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2017, 04:19:22 AM »
I just love this one - hooked breech flinter.



« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 04:20:01 AM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Steve-In

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2017, 10:25:38 PM »
Dave welcome to the forum.
Quote
But oiling the chamber after cleaning, and then de-oiling before shooting, is a problem for me.
I use brake cleaner to degrease my barrels.  I started when I used drum and nippls caplock and just kept on.  Blasts out all the left over oil and grease when sprayed through the nipple or touch hole.  The only caution I give is that do not run a dry patch down or it very likely get stuck.  I do run a very lightly lubed patch down as without any rust preventive your bore will rust.  I have not had a fail to fire when hunting since I started this process.  It even worked on my son's CVA and their whacked out breeching system.

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2017, 12:19:22 AM »
Steve, be careful with that stuff not to get it on your skin or eyes.  It sure does work, as does most stuff with lots of "Warning!" messages and skull-and-crossbones symbols.  Does nasty things to humans and animals. 

I would also be sure and oil the cleaned metal with something.  Brake cleaner/carb cleaner/carbon tet takes all the oils off of the metal, and things can rust fast afterwards. 

Just my experience.  Best wishes, and God Bless,   Marc

Offline LH

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2017, 01:09:40 AM »
If the ante-chamber is properly shaped it can be flushed completely clean of any fouling, provided you clean it every day you shoot it and don't let oil or wiping juice creep down into the fouled chamber and sit like that for two or three days. That fouling will turn into something like asphalt and will need some effort to remove.  I breach all my guns with an ante-chamber and have since 1993. The best way to clean one is to take out the touch hole liner and flush from the back end. Wrapping the liner with Teflon plumbers tape makes it easy to remove.   Plugging the touch  hole with a toothpick and pouring cleaning juice down the bore works too, but you have to be real careful or you'll have gunk running all down in your lock mortise and triggers.   To oil it,  just oil the dry bore with a patch soaked in machine oil and stand the gun up on its butt.  By tomorrow, oil will be running out the touch hole if you don't plug it with a toothpick.  As for cleaning the oil out,  pour a cap full of isopropyl alcohol down the barrel and blow it out with a patch on your jag, run another dry patch up and down, then wait about half a minute and its dry and clean.  Same thing for a capgun. 

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2017, 01:57:35 AM »
When I was a kid I had a TC 50 cal flinter. TCs have the powder chamber type plug.  I wore the muzzle out by loading.  Thousand and and thousands of shots.  I did not know enough to realize the powder chamber needed special cleaning.  I just used a pot of hot soapy water.  I use some handy oil after.  The barrel never rusted a bit.  When I removed the breech plug, many years later it was fine. 

I specualte that water dissolves any bad stuff.  Anything left is just a little carbon and the oil is enough to prevent rust. 

Offline heelerau

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2017, 01:00:28 AM »
My Parker Hale .451 Volunteer has one of those darn patent breeches, find I have to remove the nipple and prime for the the first shot most times. Even priming the nipple is not quite good enough. I use a .22 cal cleaning rod and loop fitting to wipe out the breach first.  A late mate who shot a Gibbs long range rifle also found the same issue for the first shot.  I have even tried the air compressor trick before a trip to the range without much luck. I cap off a number of times , I have a platinum lined nipple which has a ver fine hole. After the first shot is away then there are no further issues.
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2017, 04:23:28 AM »
Heelerau, is he storing the rifle muzzle up?

If the bore protectant migrates, it'll plug up the flash channel and breech at times.

Just sharing what I experienced. 

Best wishes, and God Bless,   Marc

Offline Daryl

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2017, 06:31:21 AM »
That rifle sounds like a gun cleaned with damp patches, not pumped and flushed with a water bath.  Cleaned thusly, the breech is cleaned perfectly.  When running the dry patches up and down the bore, the rush of air through teh breech will help dry the patent breech - THEN the flush of WD40 takes ALL the residual moisture out the nipple seat, then dry patched blasting the excess WD40 out - then wiped down and reassembled - THEN stored muzzle down for a while. I leave mine muzzle down in the lockup. The guns do not mind.  I never have trouble getting first shot ignition- every time with my cap locks (2) with patent breeches, nor with my flinters (2) with patent breeches.
I fire a cap on the cap locks to ensure the pathway is clear. On the flinters I look to see if the vent is open - it always is open now that I store the guns, muzzle down. Before, they vent would always be plugged with oil on the flinters. I do not remember having trouble with a cap lock if firing a cap first before loading.
Daryl

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Offline hanshi

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2017, 11:14:29 PM »
I store mine horizontally but with the barrel angled downward. 
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
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Offline JCKelly

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Re: Cleaning powder chambers
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2017, 12:02:15 AM »
Quote
Only problem I ever had was w Ballistol. Bad rust took a LOT of elbow grease w steel wool, valve grinding compound etc.  Someone said Ballistol was still cleaning- BS red is iron oxide, RUST.

Huh? Rust? Waddya mean Rust?
I thought Ballistol was a Sophisticated Modern Cleaner good for everything from your molars to gun barrel?
Bought a can, have yet to use it.

Perhaps I will keep it that way. Just use Dasani for clean up at range,  before I go home.