Grading Wrought Iron

[Clear Spring Armory]

I came across a website for a salvage company selling wrought iron tie backs from a grain bin built in the 1880's. They want around $16.00 a foot for a 10'x1 1/4" stick. My question is if iron tie backs (turn buckles) were made of a grade good enough to forge rifle barrels. Would you have to see one to know, do a PMI, or what? I don't know much about wrought iron, but I'd like to learn blacksmithing and this seemed like good source iron that should be a consistent grade. I just need to know if it could be made into barrels. Of course, I don't plan on learning blacksmithing by forging barrels, but it would be nice to get some for a later time. And is that price reasonable?

[Elnathan]

Is that a 1 x 1/4" flat strap or a 1 & 1/4" round rod? If the latter I'd say it is a good price. If the former it seems a little high, which is to say that the wrought I bought many years ago off ebay was a bit cheaper.

Dunno if anybody is going to be able to tell you if it is good enough for a barrel without having it in hand. I do believe that a lot of later 19th 20th century architectural wrought was deliberately siliconized for prevent corrosion, and would probably not be suitable for barrels.

[Dan Fruth]

The answer is yes....I have 3 pistol barrels Ed Rayle made me from this iron....Colonial Williamsburg purchased 1-2 tons of this iron, when the owners of the grain mills was Wisconsin Woodchuck..............I would go for it.....But if you bore it for a barrel, be sure to aneal it first...Ask Ed about that.................Dan Fruth

[Clear Spring Armory]

Yes, I believe its the same stuff, but its a different name. I did see Wisconsin Wood Chuck mentioned, I think someone else bought it. I'll have to look it up again. Hopefully they still have some if they've been selling it off for that long.

And yes, Elnathan, its round stock. I've read you need to start with 3/8x 4- 1/2 x 36 " flat stock. I wonder if this stuff will flatten to that size? 

Thanks guys

[John Archer]

Be careful in your dealings with this guy....I bought some wrought iron from Wisconsin Woodchuck several years ago and was very happy with the product. Last fall I placed an order with this new company...renamed from Wisconsin Woodchuck. I ordered bar stock...a couple of hundred dollars worth. I received some rod and a box of nails. I complained  and was assured that the order was mistakenly sent to someone else and I would receive a refund. This went on for weeks and finally no answers to my emails.

John.

[Dan Fruth]

I have thought about this...The best way to insure receiving the material is to go up there and buy in person....Maybe take an ALR order and someone drive up to pick it up.

[Clear Spring Armory]

Well, I'll be home from work in a few days, maybe I'll make the trip up and get some. I'm in Southern Indiana if anybody wants to ride along and get some iron.  I'll warn you, there's no AC in my truck and it has a suspension like a manure spreader 😁.

In all seriousness, if you or anyone wanted some, let me know. I'm pretty sure I'll be going. Maybe next week.

[Bob Roller]

Be careful in your dealings with this guy....I bought some wrought iron from Wisconsin Woodchuck several years ago and was very happy with the product. Last fall I placed an order with this new company...renamed from Wisconsin Woodchuck. I ordered bar stock...a couple of hundred dollars worth. I received some rod and a box of nails. I complained  and was assured that the order was mistakenly sent to someone else and I would receive a refund. This went on for weeks and finally no answers to my emails.

John.

If you sent payment by the USPS,call the Postal Inspector in your area and see what he or she can do.
If you used on line payment there may be no redress to this obvious fraud.
Neither I or my wife do ANY transfer of money online.These computers are an idea that came on scene
about 20 years before they should and are about as secure as a screen door in a hurricane.I use this
one as a toy and nothing more.

Bob Roller

[Dan Fruth]

Hey Clear Spring...Maybe you can exert some pressure for John and bring back his rod stock as well.

[John Archer]

My first order from Wisconsin Woodchuck was for 5/8 rod and 3/4 rod. It was received in good order and the 5/8 rod was excellent quality. The 3/4 rod was red short and I couldn't use it. I informed Wisconsin Woodchuck and they replaced all the 3/4 rod with 5/8 rod at no charge. They stated that the 3/4 rod was the only size they hadn't tested and they were most apologetic. I was more than happy with this company.
The new owner and renamed company are a different story altogether. I paid on-line with a credit card and have no redress in the matter. This guy is a scammer and like I said in my first email on the topic, I would be very careful in dealing with him. Deal face to face and ask him if he has had the product tested.
Also, I would like to know if he actually has bar stock available.

John.

[FlintFan]

I paid on-line with a credit card and have no redress in the matter.

Actually you will have a much easier time getting this resolved than you might think.  Talk to your credit card company and report what happened.  Much easier to get your money back with a credit card due to a fraudulent charge than any other form of payment.

[Dennis Glazener]

Not sure how your credit card company handles these but with mine (Capital One) I only need to do is to go online to the credit card website, find the transaction then click on that transaction and look for "Report a Problem" then fill out the info. They will put a block on payment to that merchant until the problem is resolved. I have done that several times and never had a problem getting the problem resolved quickly.
Dennis

I paid on-line with a credit card and have no redress in the matter.

Actually you will have a much easier time getting this resolved than you might think.  Talk to your credit card company and report what happened.  Much easier to get your money back with a credit card due to a fraudulent charge than any other form of payment.

[John Archer]

Thanks for the info guys....however seven months have passed and I've long since gotten used to the fact that I was ripped off.

I originally posted to warn any potential customers that this guy is not a straight shooter.

John.

[KentSmith]

I'd still like to know if there is a way to tell first run from second or third before working it. Other than guessing based on what it was originally used for. I think wheel tires were usually first run for instance but i may be wrong.

[bob in the woods]

Here is the tiny bit I know. Looking at it ...good luck.  If you cut partially through and then bend it apart, you can see the fibers and inclusions. Or, take a file to the piece and then look for the silica inclusions with a magnifier.

[JCKelly]

Springfield Armory during Mr. Lincoln's war went to great lengths to get good quality wrought iron for their barrels. During that period these were roll-welded from skelp, a process still used through mid-20th century to make "black iron pipe"

I do not know how they decided what iron was good, and what not. I do know that the guys with knowledge and experience in these matters have been dust for quite a while now.

Harpers Ferry Armory had fairly lousy iron and welded their barrels by hand in, say, 1830. Loss in proof at Harpers Ferry was as high as 25%, loss by triphammers at Springfield about 10% then. Do not know what it was during that unpleasant affair between the states.

Yup, wrought iron has silica slag in it. Wonderful stuff under the hammer.

Y' might want to read Harper’s Ferry and the New Technology, Merritt Roe Smith, ©1977, for some detail on barrel making.

Oh, BobintheWoods, are you really going to forge an actual gun barrel & put gunpowder in it? 

[bob in the woods]

The original poster was looking to forge a gun barrel.  I, myself, have a piece of very high quality wrought iron that I purchased some years ago from Brad Emig at Cabin Creek .  I'm in the process of making a barrel from it...machining, filing etc ,  not forging.

[Jay Close]

It is my understanding wrought iron was often sold and marketed as single, double or triple refined, the homogeneity and fineness of the  material's grain being improved with each refinement. Some very poor grades ("muck bar") will show obvious silica inclusion on the surface, but beyond the obvious it is hard to evaluate wrought iron without actually working it.

A simple test is to forge a bit of the end of the bar into sheet as thin an possible. The less splitting and fraying on the end the better. Even the best iron will split some, but the worst will split dramatically.

Some iron will tend to crack across the grain. This seems to be the result of chemical contamination  and is sometimes associated with working at high or low temperatures. I worked an old bar that fell apart as I forged regardless of the temperature. I got the project finished but not without several repairs with my oxyacetylene torch. The bar looked fine, but was a nightmare.

Picking bar based on how it was used in the past is a guessing  game. Some of the worst and best iron I've used came as old wagon tires. I have some old tie-rod material right now that is good, but not great. The nightmare bar I describes was also used in a stone building's internal support.

Good iron is a joy to use but requires more skillful forging. Work it hot and avoid sharp, inside corners and cross grain nicks or cuts. Think of it like a piece of wood with linear grain, stronger one direction than the other.

Have fun!

[Dennis Glazener]

I turned and threaded some wrought iron (from an old bridge) and it was full of sicila slang. When turning it on the lathe it threw sparks like it was the fourth of July!
I feel sure it was first run and I would have hated trying to forge a barrel out of it!
Dennis

[David R. Pennington]

I don't know of any way to tell except under the hammer. Some is as stringy as spagetti and some a joy. You do need to learn to work it hotter than steel. I have found some really good wagon tires and some poor. The worst I got was an old plow brace. Right stringy stuff. Had to keep welding it back together. You want good stuff for barrels.

[Nordnecker]

Wow- $16.00 a foot?!? Sounds really expensive to me. I've scavenged up old wrought iron buggy axles and wheels and various bits over the years. Found most of it while rabbit hunting. Some of it is really trashy stuff, some of it is nice to work. You can definately tell the difference under the hammer.
I salvaged material from an old house that had burned. All of the original nails were hand forged. It was surprising to me how many of the nails had split in two while being driven. You would never know this if you tried to pull the nail. But since the wood had burned away you could see what had happened. Some of them had bent around like a fish hook. Others had split upon entering the wood and gone in two directions like tines on a pitchfork.

[JCKelly]

"split in two"

Great stuff for a barrel