Lead source

[caliber45]

With all the growing concerns about the economy and about availability/cost of lead, I thought I'd add this. (One caveat: Those living in Southern Arizona should NOT read the following; it might jeopardize my new lead supply . . .) Tired of trying to find plumbers and roofers who might have "scrap" lead for sale cheap, I decided to try another tack: stained glass window producers. They use soft (pure? near-pure?) lead to join the pieces of stained glass windows, decorations, etc. Found five in the Tucson area. One already recycles. Second had no scrap, but said they would call me when some accumulates. Third had "about 40 pounds (actually, about 36)," and gave it to me gratis. Fourth said she had just short of 25 pounds at the shop and in her home shop; come and get it for 35-cents a pound (I did, of course). Last one said she has a box of "about 100 pounds," but has temporarily forgotten just where she has it, since she just moved her shop. If I call back after the weekend, she said, she'll probably have located it, and I can come and pick it up. Didn't say outright, but implication is that it'll be free. Few phone calls = about 60 pounds of lead in hand (total cost, $8.25), and another (perhaps) 100 pounds, possibly free. The lead pieces ranged from long strips to what I'd term "lead gravel" -- small bits and pieces. Won't promise that it's pure lead, but it sure is soft so I suspect it is. Occasional pieces with some solder; they're so few I don't bother to cull them out, but one could. The stained-glass folks seemed pleased with the prospect of my "recycling" their lead. If you've got stained glass places in your community or nearby, it might be worth a phone call if you're in the market for inexpensive projectile metal . . . - paul

[Dan]

That's a good idea ya got there pilgrim.   I'm off to pester artistic blue hairs!*





* There's a lot of that here in the area.  Blue hair I mean.

[Daryl]

Paul- far as I know, it's pure lead. Lead with tin will bend fairly easily, though, but lead with antimony in it will only bend once without stressing (lines) and sometimes fractures even with one bending, depending on the alloy.

Now - if it has tin in it, easy - just turn up the heat. The tin will rise and burn off fairly quickly - but, it's got to be hot.  I'd do this outdoors or with a good exhaust fan running full bent.  It is much more difficult to remove antimony once it's melted into the matrix, but cycling, solid and cool, to just melted and skimmed a number of times can remove a lot of antimony (and lead, unfortunately) - it's a long process and not totally effective, but it does work somewhat. I'm referring to wheel weight-type metal here, (not 'Type' metal).

Sounds as if you've hit a Gold Mine for soft lead and I do think it's plumber's lead - about 98% pure maybe even softer.  Either is good.

I have some .43" WW balls (hard) cast for testing in the .45 bore. I usually use a .445" ball and .0215" denim patch (.023"- calipers) I am going to test to see if hard balls can be shot with enough accuracy to satisfy me. 

Any who are stuck with hard lead, reducing ball diameter might be necessary & useable, due to difficulty loading with normal tight combinations.

[Leatherbelly]

 I think those stained glass people use pure sheet lead, Daryls. Much like the stuff I gave you.Still have a hunnert pounds or more of it. I'm close to landing 2 more tonnes of the good stuff.Got the company convinced it's contaminating the ground it lays on....and the fumes it gives off,LOL

[Daryl]

Keep at 'em - they tend to forget things like that, not really giving a hoot unless someone complains - more than once.

[erdillonjr]

If you can scratch it with your fingernail it is usally good enough to use

[Leatherbelly]

  Soon to have it,Daryls. Got the green light from one supervisor, just need one more from the manager. Wanna help? Gotta a forklift to move it,set of bottles and a rosebud to founder it,will need a few bodies to... One problem tho, its in a steel case enclosed on all sides but the top.Will look into using our Fabricating shop after hours for the melt down.Talk more Sunday,OK? (2ft. wide,8 inches thick,by 4 ft. long, I'm guessing about 3,500 pounds) Free!...with conditions.hehehe

[northmn]

An article in the Lyman cast bullet handbook mentions that once lead is amalgamated with antimony you are stuck with it.  Some casters for Ml's like about 1 to .5 percnet tin to make the lead "flow" better into a mold.  Were it me I would take the time to remove any solder as it can add some interesting stuff to you cast even at a low percentage.  Chilled shot at 1% antimony can be tempered to make a bullet about as hard as linotype, especially if you are in a hurry and drop the shot into a bucket.  I use the stuff to make centerfire rifle bullets that can be shot at about 2000 fps and have gotten 4 deer with them using annealed noses.  Tin also hardens lead fairly quickly as 1-40 is a start for bare cst bullets.  Lyman has a chart showing hardness.  Pure lead is about Brinnell 5 and 1-20 about 9.

DP

[Habu]

A very long time ago I had a number of samples of lead analyzed.  We found very little difference between salvaged lead pipe, plumbers lead, and those adhesive wheel weights used on alloy wheels.  Any more, I don't bother to separate the three sources.  I wrote some of this up for the amusement of the MLML; a google search might turn up some of the scribbles.

Burning out alloying ingredients isn't really a do-it-yourself process; IIRC it takes place at temperatures above the fuming point of lead.  Below that temp, we were unable to find a process that would significantly lower the content of antimony, and it barely affected tin content.  In one test, we started with an alloy consisting of 95% lead, 2.5% antimony, .5% tin, .1% arsenic, and 1.9% trace elements (clip-on wheelweights).  After 12 hours at 850 degrees F skimming every 20-30 minutes, we ended with an alloy of 95.21% lead, 2.51% antimony, .31% tin, .07% arsenic, 1.9% trace elements.

Didja notice the arsenic content of those wheel weights?  Arsenic is alloyed with lead as a hardening agent, most commonly in lead shot.  In that application it is more efficient than antimony.  Some arsenic will outgas, particularly at high temps or when lead is held at a molten state for a long time.  I'm all for historical reenactment, but I've no desire to emulate Napoleon . . .   This is why it is important to keep the dross removed when casting dry; if the dross gets wet it can release arsine and stibine gases.  Inhalation or ingestion of either of these compounds can have some really unpleasant (toxic) effects.

This all kind of makes the occasional casting blister seem minor.  Be careful, eh?

[Daryl]

The lead we got fromt he Hospital walls, was so pure, it would discolour even before melting completely - a pain as it produced an oxidized crust on the dipper and shaft of the bottom pour pots. Skimming had to be done every 20 balls - a pain. I now add 1/4" of 50/50 solider to a 20 pound pot and the lead remains silver for a loooooong time - casting is much better and the balls still more than plenty soft - can't tell any difference in brinel by scratching, crushing or loading with tight combinations.

Am looking forward to gleaning some 'free' lead from LB. I may have some more already cast .395's for him as with summer, I'll be switching to .400's- probably.

[hanshi]

Just wondering, Daryl, but do you experience any change in poi at all when switching between ball sizes?   I was thinking of breaking out my .445 mould again and seeing how they fare against the .440 I've been using recently.

[Daryl]

Flintr- as to POI changes, so far, from .440's to .445's in my GM barrel, just better accuracy. Same goes for the .40 with .395's going to .400's.

Both barrels at time of testing this, were .42". Since that time, I've shortened the .40 barrel to 36".  I noted in my wife's .45 barrel at 30", less powder is required for an excellent load and it shoots .440's just fine. Easier for her to load with the .0215" patches.  My younger daughter had no difficulty loading .445's with the same .0215" patch.  That denim patch runs .025" using calipers.  I use a mic and thus get the smaller .0215" thickness reading.
Hmmm - getting off-track again - sorry.

[hanshi]

Flintr- as to POI changes, so far, from .440's to .445's in my GM barrel, just better accuracy. Same goes for the .40 with .395's going to .400's.

Both barrels at time of testing this, were .42". Since that time, I've shortened the .40 barrel to 36".  I noted in my wife's .45 barrel at 30", less powder is required for an excellent load and it shoots .440's just fine. Easier for her to load with the .0215" patches.  My younger daughter had no difficulty loading .445's with the same .0215" patch.  That denim patch runs .025" using calipers.  I use a mic and thus get the smaller .0215" thickness reading.
Hmmm - getting off-track again - sorry.

You answered my question just fine.  I wasn't sure what to expect with the larger ball.  Think I'll do some more casting or just use ww which should bump the .440 up to around .445.  Thanks.

[Daryl]

Flintr- I've found larger sizes and hard balls don't work well. The larger the ball, the more impressed it is by the rifling and the softer it has to be.

[omark]

whel weights are awful tough on gongs, too.    mark   

[pulaski]

I got a lot of lead from plumbers in the area .
Was in one of the plumbing wholesale places a while back and saw the 5lb pucks they have , got them for less than a buck a lb. (100 lbs. )
Nice pure soft lead .