Author Topic: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed  (Read 9578 times)

Offline smart dog

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Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« on: May 31, 2017, 07:01:35 PM »
Hi,
I posted some earlier photos of this project.  I finished the conversion except for case hardening parts and possibly engraving the tumbler-flintcock screw.  It represents a good quality English from the 1765-1775 without all the bells and whistles like a roller frizzen and "waterproof" pan.  It is appropriate for an English sporting gun of good but not best quality.  The kind of better gun that might be exported to the American colonies before the Rev War.  The engraving is simple with some thick and thin borders and sculpted moldings around the flintcock and lockplate.  I used the Siler because that is what the owner of the gun I am building gave me and I did not want to use a round-faced lock or later flat lock with all the bells and whistles.  The gun is scaled small for a petite woman. The Siler had enough extra metal to work with but I added some weld here and there.     I think it looks pretty good.  The filed notches were a fashion during the time period.

dave








« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 07:02:32 PM by smart dog »
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 07:06:03 PM »
Really nice work Dave!!
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline KC

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2017, 08:41:32 PM »
Nicely done, that's a very nice looking lock.
K.C. Clem
Bradenton, FL

Offline Rolf

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2017, 09:16:20 PM »
Great work!!!! I would never have thougth that Lock started out as siler. Thanks for showing it. It's inspiring to see what is possible do.  Great option for lefthanded shooters.

Best regards
Rolf

Offline conquerordie

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2017, 10:57:47 PM »
I agree with Rolf. When I see this lock it A) makes me envious that I don't have the talent to pull that off, and B) makes me look at the parts availble and opens to me the possibilities that a little imagination can do. I alter buttplates and triggerguards, but rarely locks. I'm gonna have to try now!
Great job!
Greg

Offline Robby

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2017, 01:40:31 AM »
Nicely done dave.
Robin
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Offline James Rogers

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2017, 01:50:36 AM »
Excellent!!

Offline smart dog

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2017, 02:02:56 AM »
Hi,
Thank you all for looking.  James and Taylor, thank you especially because you guys really understand English style.  This was so much fun but I cannot imagine anyone trying to do this and earn a fair wage.  That lock would be so expensive for a small Siler, I would be bankrupt in a week.  Regardless, the historical journey is worth it and I learned so much about English locks of the time, plus I can bank my new learned skills for future work.  That bank account is growing all the time.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2017, 04:05:04 AM »
I like it!

Jeff
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Offline davec2

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2017, 05:05:56 AM »
David,

Unbelievable conversion !!!  How many hours did just the molding on the cock and plate take ?  And how did you do the molding ?

Dave C
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline jerrywh

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2017, 05:53:36 AM »
 Hey Smart Dog. that's pretty darn good.  That's the best conversion I have seen using a small chambers. Did you need to change any internals? All you need to do now is inlay your name with 24K.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 05:54:53 AM by jerrywh »
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Offline BOB HILL

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2017, 11:57:46 AM »
Fine looking conversion, Dave. Thanks for sharing.        Bob
South Carolina Lowcountry

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2017, 02:04:48 PM »
Very nice work, Dave!  Well done!


        Ed
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Offline Longknife

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2017, 10:54:58 PM »
Wouldn't it be great if Chambers offered this lock in the "ENGLISH" style,,,(Hint,,,,,)
Ed Hamberg

Offline tlallijr

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2017, 12:53:58 AM »
Great job on the conversion !

Offline smart dog

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2017, 01:16:19 AM »
Hi,
Thanks everyone for looking and commenting!  Longknife, I sure agree with you.  Davec2, it took a while but much of the time was spent learning and practicing on some old plates to figure out a method for cutting the molding.  Once I got going on the Siler, it went pretty fast.  I placed the plate on edge in my engraving vise and using a 90 degree square graver, I cut a deep line right at the lower edge of the bevel. My cut was actually on the bevel but right at its lower edge. It is not hard to do but you have to keep the graver perpendicular to the bevel or it tends to wander up the bevel.  I then turned the plate on its back and using the line as a guide, cut the shoulder flat with a small flat graver.  Now I have a beveled edge with a flat lip at the bottom like Chambers early Germanic lock.  To cut the finer upper shoulder, With the plate lying flat, I used my square 90 degree graver to cut a moderately heavy line right at the edge of the top and bevel. It really requires some precise control of the graver to keep the cut right on the edge.  Then I repeated the cut but angled the graver toward the bevel to cut away one side of the line creating a tiny shoulder.  After that, I cleaned up and smoothed the shoulders with a tiny riffler file.  It was not too hard and I certainly will do it again now that I know what I am doing.  You probably could use a tiny flat chisel throughout but I found that I could not cut precisely along an edge with the flat.  I needed the sharp 90 degree cutter to keep on track.

dave     
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2017, 01:47:00 AM »
Very nice work, Dave!  Well done!


        Ed

OUTSTANDING work. I get tired just thinking of the time that was invested in this beautiful lock.
Did the mechanism get altered along with the rest of the lock? If so can we see it?

Bob Roller

Offline Chowmi

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2017, 02:50:54 AM »
Dave,
That is fantastic! Looks beautiful.
Thank you for the description of how you made the border with your gravers. I am just about to do the same on a Davis early Colonial lock.  I will try your technique.

Cheers,
Norm.
Cheers,
Chowmi

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Offline Daryl

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2017, 03:53:19 AM »
Looks great- the upper and lower jaws have teeth like a baby gator.
Daryl

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Offline smart dog

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2017, 04:03:25 AM »
Looks great- the upper and lower jaws have teeth like a baby gator.

As they should Daryl.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Curtis

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2017, 04:17:12 AM »
Marvelous job with the conversion, Dave.  It looks like it was made that way!

Curtis
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2017, 04:47:38 AM »
 Lately I did the bevel on a special Russian lock the same way. I have a cutter I made that I use on my lathe that will cut the bevel a little easier than doing it by hand.  I have no proof but I think the English did it with a cutter like I made just because it is easier to do. I doubt that they did so many by hand. The first I ever heard of anybody doing it like Dave was Mark Silver. He told me how he did it. It could have also been done with a small stone wheel. Also a combination of the two.
 In any case that is a super nice job and not many can do it.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline davec2

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2017, 09:27:52 AM »
Jerry,
Do you have a picture of the cutter you made for the lathe?  And a picture of how you used it ?
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2017, 03:18:36 PM »
Jerry,
Do you have a picture of the cutter you made for the lathe?  And a picture of how you used it ?

Yes!! I'd like to see the cutter and setup as well!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper\Jonathan

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Conversion of Small Siler to English Lock Completed
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2017, 07:29:13 PM »
Had to come back to this thread again. Just beautiful work!