Author Topic: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet  (Read 4926 times)

Offline cwbuff

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Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« on: June 04, 2017, 11:19:03 PM »
I started collecting in 1983, but only recently got interested in longrifles. They are very different to understand than "manufactured" guns. In order to properly describe my longrifle to aid in its identification, I have created the taxonomy below. It is based on researching many references and web pages of both antique and contemporary longrifles. It could evolve into a “datasheet” for documenting longrifles. Datasheets are common practice with other collectable guns (e.g., US M1 Garand, US M1 Carbine, US M1903, German K98k).  I could not find anything like this for American longrifles, so I decided to work towards one. It is a work in progress.

I would love to get some feedback on this from forum experts.

1. Overall Description
    • General statement on lock type, architecture, furniture and era
    • Overall length (maximum from butt to muzzle)
    • Weight (with ramrod)
    • Originality (general description of known contemporary or periods repairs)
2. Barrel
2.1   External cross-sectional shape
    • Full octagon
    • Round
    • Half octagon
2.2   Length
    • Overall length (Muzzle to beginning of breech plug)
    • Bore length (internal length as checked with ramrod)
2.3   Profile
    • Straight (no taper = width at bolster equals width at muzzle)
    • Tapered (wider at bolster than at muzzle)
    • Swamped (wide at bolster narrowing in the middle then widening again at muzzle)
2.4   Markings
    • Marking purpose (e.g., gunsmith, barrel maker, owner)
    • Type (e.g., signature, initials)
    • Marking location on barrel (e.g., gunsmith marking is usually equidistant between breech and rear sight)
    • Letter style (script or block letters)
    • Marking method (stamped, deeply engraved, etched)
2.5   Muzzle crown
    • Profile
    • Chamfer
    • Engraving (e.g., “n” punch marks, crescent moon)
2.6   Barrel engraving
    • Description
    • Location on barrel (e.g., flats)
    • Relationship to other features (e.g. distance from sights)
2.7   Bore
2.7.1   Smoothbore
    • Diameter
    • Original vs worn vs rebore
2.7.2   Rifled
    • Twist type (straight, spiral, gain twist)
    • Twist direction (right hand twist, left hand twist, straight)
    • Twist rate (1 in “n” inches)
    • Number of grooves
    • Groove width
    • Groove cross-sectional shape (e.g., v-shaped, u-shaped, tooth-shaped)
    • Groove depth
    • Land-to-land diameter
2.7.3   Stretched (smoothbore with last n inches rifled)
    • Use combination of smoothbore and rifle taxonomies.
2.8   Breech Plug and Tang
    • Length (from end of barrel to end of tang)
    • Tang length (extension from breech plug)
    • Tang shape (“bird’s eye” view)
    • Tang shape (side view; e.g., straight angle down, curved down)
    • Tang bolt (type and material)
    • Engraving (none or description of engraving)
2.9   Ignition
    • Flintlock touch hole (diameter, original vs reconversion)
    • Percussion nipple (original vs reconversion)
2.10   Under-lugs for Barrel Attachment
    • Number of lugs
    • Material (e.g., iron, brass)
    • Type (e.g., iron 2-pin slot, dovetailed folded brass (see http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10152.0 )
2.11   Front sight
    • Material(s)
    • Style
    • Blade height
    • Blade length
    • Blade width
    • Dovetail depth, width an angle (note single or double attachment)
    • Engraving (none or description)
2.12   Rear sight
    • Material
    • Style (e.g., Lehigh, Lancaster, York, skirt over dovetail, finial tail)
    • Base (length, width, thickness)
    • Leaf
    • Height
    • Width
    • Thickness
    • Shape (v-notch, round notch, etc.)
    • Dovetail width and depth
    • Engraving
3. Lock
    • Type (e.g., original flintlock, flintlock conversion to percussion, flintlock reconversion (percussion back to flintlock, original percussion)
    • Style (early goose-neck, etc.)
    • Screws
    • Markings
    • Plate width
    • Plate height
    • Plate shape
    • Plate engraving
    • Hammer description (gooseneck?)
    • Frizzen description (roller on frizzen?)
    • Bridle between pan and frizzen?
    • Pan size and shape
4. Trigger
4.1   Trigger
    • Type (e.g., single, single set, double set)
    • Length
    • Width
    • Curvature
    • Spade or ?
    • Material (iron or brass)
    • Trigger plate (material, size, shape)
4.2   Trigger guard
    • Material (e.g., brass, iron)
    • Overall length
    • Bow length
    • Bow max width
    • Bow max height
    • Bow lug forward?
    • Pre-bow dimensions and shape
    • Post bow dimensions and shape
5. Stock
5.1   General Specifications
    • Architecture (e.g. region/school)
    • Furniture (brass, iron)
    • Full or half stock
    • Wood type and figure (e.g., curly maple, plain maple, cherry)
    • Wood finish
5.2   Upper Forearm
5.2.1   Upper Forearm Metrics
    • Length
    • Contour (e.g., v-shaped, u-shaped)
    • Barrel channel depth (how deep is the barrel inletted?)
5.2.2   Nose cap
    • Material (brass, etc.)
    • Profile
    • Open end or solid?
    • Attachment (e.g., open-end nose caps are commonly formed of thin sheet brass, which is either wrapped around the exterior of the stock and riveted in place or wrapped completely around the exterior of the stock and under the barrel as well. In either case, the nose caps are open-ended and the wood end-grain is visible.)
    • Dimensions
5.2.3   Barrel Attachment Fasteners
    • Attachment type (tennon through slot (material); round pins peened on end (material))
    • Escutcheons (material, shape (e.g., lens, oval/ellipse), fasteners)
5.2.4   Ramrod Channel
    • Cross-section size
    • Thimbles/ramrod pipes (material, length, # of facets, attachment method)
5.3   Lower Forearm
5.3.1   Size and Shape
    • Length (as measured ? to ?)
    • Transition from upper to lower forearm
    • Profile at lock and lockplate
    • Thumb piece (none or description of thumbpiece)
5.3.2   Side plate
    • Material
    • Inset vs surface mount
    • Shape
    • Beveled sides?
    • Screws
    • Engraving
5.3.3   Entrance ferrule/thimble (lower-most thimble where ramrod enters lower forestock)
    • Material
    • Overall length
    • Ferrule length
    • Finial length
    • Ferrule shape
    • Finial shape
    • Engraving
    • End shape (square, convex)
    • Ramrod hole size
5.4   Buttstock
5.4.1   Wrist
    • Transition from lower forearm
    • Cross-sectional profile (e.g.,, round "egg-shaped" or wider-than-tall wrist)
    • Step curve wrist?
5.4.2   Description/Metrics
    • Drop at heel (line from top of barrel to heel)
    • Buttstock comb profile (e.g., sweeping curve, straight)
    • Drop at comb (line from top of barrel to comb)
    • Cast-off (of stock from line-of-sight)
    • Heel-to-toe distance
    • Buttstock bottom profile (e.g., sweeping curve, straight, offset from straight line)
5.4.3   Stock Cheek Piece / Cheek Rest
    • Shape
    • Carving
    • Ornamentation
5.4.4   Stock Comb
    • Cross-sectional profile (flat, slightly rounded, rounded)
    • Side profile (e.g., sharply rounded, convex with very smooth arc)
    • Drop to point of comb
    • Point of comb shape or terminus (e.g., “Roman nose”, concave toe line the forward arc of which is terminated at the junction of the stock and rear trigger guard extension)
5.4.5   Carving Type
    • Carving – that which protrudes above the surface of the gunstock;
    • Relief carving - that which feels like raised carving to the touch and has the appearance of raised carving, but in fact is flush with or beneath the actual surface contour of the gunstock;
    • Incised carving -  line carvings simply cut directly into the stock.
5.4.6   Medallions or Inlays
    • Location (wrist, cheek piece)
    • Materials (brass, coin silver)
    • Fasteners (nails, screws)
    • Shape
5.4.7   Patchbox
    • Stock Cutout
        - Length, width, depth
        - Drill marks (number, diameter)
        - Presence of prayer hole ("Gott sei mit dem Jδger.") Typical of Lehigh County.
        - Markings
    • Cover/Lid
        - number of pieces (2-piece lid & finial)
        - materials used (brass, wood, silver)
        - fasteners (nails, screws)
        - shape
        - flat or domed?
        - engraving
        - hinge location (top, side)
    • Hinge (number of hinge knuckles; top or side hinge”)
    • Side wings or side plates; whale tail (stock show between parts?)
    • Piercings or cutouts
    • Finial (# of lobes, elongation)
    • Surface mounted or inlaid
    • Release (location, shape, etc.)
    • Shape of patch box lid
5.5   Buttplate
    • Dimensions
    • Shape (straight, crescent)
    • Maximum deflection from toe-to-heel line (max offset from heel to toe or crescent offset)
    • Material
    • Material thickness
    • Fastening method and location
    • Style (e.g., "sheath style", in that there is a draft filed on the buttplate return that is inlet into the wood instead of on top of it.)
    • Top extension (# and type of facets, engraving)
5.6   Toeplate
    • Material
    • Finial?
    • Fasteners
6. Ramrod
    • Length
    • Diameter
    • Ends (shape, metal?)
    • Material
    • Embellishments (e.g.,spiral burns)
    • Originality


« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 05:52:22 PM by cwbuff »

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2017, 02:38:21 AM »
WOW, talk about complicating what has been relatively simple. Each rifle/pistol would have a whole book. The current descriptions that most of us create and a few pictures have worked well for a long time in identifying and cataloqing (sp)collectible arms. IMHO
Mark
Mark

Offline alyce-james

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2017, 03:09:52 AM »
cwbuff; Sir, I think this is overkill. Sorry I could not complete reading this list. "To long". However I do appreciate the effort. Thanks for sharing. AJ.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 03:11:37 AM by alyce-james »
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Offline Curt Lyles

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2017, 04:43:25 AM »
This adds new meaning to the statement a picture's worth a thousand words

Offline Lucky R A

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2017, 01:54:43 PM »
    This is the kind of information I would like to have when I am re-creating a particular rifle that I have never seen or handled.  It would supply the details that I might have to guess at otherwise.  This and a good set of photos and you would be all set....I have worked all these years with just the photos and a few rudimentary dimensions.  I would guess that this will never catch on with longrifles that were not mass produced to a set of standards.   Probably overkill, but thanks for the effort...Ron
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Offline vtbuck223

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2017, 04:24:55 PM »
cwbuff ...I must admit that I had often wondered why this type of detailed study information was not collected by those who are passionate about these rifles. Based upon the responses here...I think I understand why. Seems to me  like it would add valuable and precise data but would also remove some of the mystique and raise some questions as well.

Offline Howard

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2017, 05:26:46 PM »
You have really put effort into this. You give plenty of insight and plenty to think about. Thank you for this effort.

Offline cwbuff

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2017, 05:41:31 PM »
Thanks for ALL the responses. I understand that this may be overkill, but in putting it together I learned a lot and it may help other neophytes get started.

I have had a flintlock longrifle for about 10 years. I gained a renewed interest in them when I was at the Mansfield Ohio Civil War Show the first week of May. I saw a lot of longrifles for sale for very reasonable prices. The guy I was with bought a beautiful curly maple percussion longrifle with "W.M. Gardner" stamped on the barrel and lock. I started researching his "new" gun and mine. I posted some pics of mine on this forum. I agree that pics are a quick and efficient way to convey information about the gun. The feedback that I got was that it was from Lehigh county or from Berks county close to Leheigh county.

So I started looking at Lehigh county flintlock longrifles. I did find a couple of lists of features of Lehigh county longrifles. These key feature lists only matched in part, other parts did not match. These were at least crude datasheets that could be used to compare known longrifles to mine.  The first problem I had is that I did not understand the language that was being used to describe the gun characteristics. This comes with experience, but I wanted to know NOW. For example, what is a "spade trigger" or a "sheathed buttplate"? I can guess, but I still do not know.

So I looked for a document that would describe longrifle terminology such as a taxonomy or a glossary. I could not find one. So I dove into reading and and looking at pics, making notes along the way. This posting is the result.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 05:54:19 PM by cwbuff »

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2017, 09:14:29 PM »
cwbuff; Sir, I think this is overkill. Sorry I could not complete reading this list. "To long". However I do appreciate the effort. Thanks for sharing. AJ.

Having tried to make measurements and record them for a few rifles (measuring swamped barrels every 2 inches!), I can assure you that I am far too busy (or lazy :D) to take the time to make and record such detail (and I am a fairly detailed oriented person). But on the other hand I would love to have that data for any rifle that I was planning to build or for that matter interested in buying.
Dennis
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 09:16:13 PM by Dennis Glazener »
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Offline bgf

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2017, 09:26:39 PM »
This idea is sound. 

I've given it some thought over the past few years and came to the conclusion that it would be really useful if each rifle described had a standard set of pictures accompanied by written measurements and  descriptions of features and profiles that are not easily seen in photographs.  My biggest pet peeve is that books often go for pretty pictures at artistic angles and then omit critical shots such as top view of wrist and tang!

That said, the identifications of origins made on unsigned riles or rifles signed by unknown/unlocated makers often change by decade.  In many ways, a rigorous "taxonomic" depiction of a significant sample of rifles would be useful to  correlate and/or calibrate current  thinking.

Last but not least, it would make building accurate copies and rifles "styled after" originals much easier.

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2017, 10:20:17 PM »
I have a set of sheets I use when examining original guns. It is used in conjunction with detailed pictures. Not as exhaustive as your list of features but detailed nonetheless and dealing mainly with measurements.
A caliper dipped in rubber coating and re-zeroed works good for original guns to protect from scratches,  etc.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 12:18:33 AM by James Rogers »

Offline cwbuff

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2017, 02:53:21 PM »
Beyond what has been stated here about datasheets, there is more to think about. Well-designed longrifle datasheets would greatly aid longrifle research. Researchers continue to try to identify the maker of an unmarked gun and/or try to determine where and when their gun was made. If you think about these research issues, they resemble a kind of intelligence problem that involve social network analysis. Instead of finding cells of terrorist bombers and the attributes of the bombs that they make, we are looking for the relationships between gunsmiths and the attributes of their longrifles - including where and when they were made and how they evolved over time. The same data-mining / machine-learning techniques used in industry could be used for longrifle research.

Offline WElliott

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2017, 05:58:35 AM »
Impressive! There's no such thing as too much information in documenting longrifles you own, so have at it. I have retained information on each of the 160+!longrifles I have owned over decades of collecting. In recent years, I have been much more detailed in my documentation. For my purposes, that means maybe 10% of the information that you thought of.

To me, the most important thing is to have good, detailed photographs, and obtaining  good photographs is much easier in this digital age. Thirty or forty years ago, I generally took only two or three pictures of each rifle and they were  of mediocre quality. Now I can photographically record details to my heart's content. Just employ and enjoy whatever system serves your interest and personality. Welcome to longrifle collecting!
Wayne Elliott

Offline sqrldog

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2017, 04:04:24 AM »
I agree you can hardly have too much information  or data on a rifle. One of the books that has enlightened me on some of the dimensions of really fine long rifles is Dave Hansen's  "An Intimate Look at The American Longrifle". Hansen has a data sheet in the back of the book that gives numerous measurements of each rifle. Studying this information can really benefit a builder. As an example of all the rifles shown only one the Isaac Haines has a wrist over 1.5" at the wrist's narrowest measurement.  Barrel breech measurements are also smaller on some of the rifles  than I previously thought. Pictures are great but they often make a rifle look larger than they are in real life. Any student of the longrifle needs a copy of Hansen's book. The pictures are super and the accompanying information is invaluable.  I think the KRA still has copies. Tim

Offline cwbuff

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Re: Towards a LongRifle Taxonomy/Datasheet
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2017, 11:31:04 AM »
Thanks Tim - I will get a copy of that book.