Curly Maple Kibler with some "Extras"

[Kingsburyarms]

Hi all - Have a good a friend that wanted a Jim Kibler .32 with a few extra "accessories", there have been some fantastic Kibler builds on this site, and I enjoy building his kits very much. I thought I would share this build (well under way) for you to see some of the slight differences you can add to this kit to make it "your own"

It stands so perfectly by itself, yet you can always add your personal touches.

I was requested to add a Toe Plate, a Nose Cap and a "Bean" Patch box.  All in steel, which will be "pewter grey" when finished. I also cut out a small Sterling silver hunters star that I will put in the cheek piece with some engraving and his grandson's initials. Here are a few photos of the progress and the items I added to the kit. As always, thoughts, feedback and input always welcome.

The nose cap and the toe plate are already shaped, polished and in place, I am still making the Bean patch box and setting up the alignment on the stock. I plan to attach it with three screws (as that is what I have seen with many "Bean" patch boxes, so you can see my marks for additional cutting, sizing and alignment. Those with "Bean" experience, please pipe in, my first in shaping, design and placement. 

Jon






















free image cdn

[John Archer]

Hi Jon,

Couple of things I'd change......a little too much barrel showing in front of the cap, and the patchbox looks a little fat to me... it may be the angle of the photograph. Still, I think I'd slim it down some to an inch or so wide.

John.

[P.W.Berkuta]

Hi Jon,

Couple of things I'd change......a little too much barrel showing in front of the cap, and the patchbox looks a little fat to me... it may be the angle of the photograph. Still, I think I'd slim it down some to an inch or so wide.

John.

Plus I'd make the star a bit bigger .

[bama]

Hi John

Good looking project but I will agree that the patch box you have shown is to wide for this rifle. The box on the original rifle is 1" wide and is a relatively small box in length also. If you have Jerry Noble's books there is a picture of the original rifle in them. Sorry I don't remember which one but it gives you a pretty good idea about how big the box should be. I made a box for Ron Hess's kibler rifle that he built in one of my kit building classes and I want to say the whole box was maybe 5 1/2" long. I want to say 1 1/2" for the finial and the door was 4". Maybe Ron will see this and give us the dimensions we used.  I believe the original box has a slight dish to it and we gave Ron's box a slight dish. I think this adds way more caricature to the overall look of the rifle. These are great little rifles, good luck with your project.

[Kingsburyarms]

Thanks all - Great feedback - The box is now 5 and 3/8 length and the width is 1 1/4 and the lid is 4". Happy to get any updates - I did take the measurements of a few samples (one or two from Jerry Noble) and applied them, as well as made a little "dish" to the box. I will mark the box with pencil on the stock and measure against some of the photos I have, The one above was my first "rough draft" and it does look better in these new dimensions.  -  Fun side note - I decreased the length of the nose cap to the barrel by about 60% leaving 1/16 of barrel past the cap. I will assemble tonight and send updated images. Thanks all for the advice - this is a great forum...

Jon

[GA Turner]

Sorry for delay in responding was at WKU last week. Dimensions for patch box 5 1/4" overall length; 1 1/4 width. Lid is 3 3/4" . Use Geo Whitson original photo and scaled to fit the Kibler butt stock length.

[Cades Cove Fiddler]

 ...Have handled several original east Tennessee rifles, and have never seen an original with 3 screws... A good, clear reference photo is the C. BEAN rifle in FoxFire 5....long and slender....of course none were the exact same, as each was individually made...this is a photo of the one on my .40 cal. .... 7"x 1" overall with the opening part 4"....slightly domed, not flat....also use extreme care in positioning onto stock.....can ruin the profile of the stock....The Lawing rifles in my opinion are the ultimate in Tennessee style....Good Luck.....looking great so far..... !!!. ....CC Fiddler..... 



..... This photo might help ........an imaginary line through the centre of the patchbox terminates at the line where plug meets barrel,...at the top of the pan fence.... however would be different depending on the drop in the stock ......

[Kingsburyarms]

CC Fiddler,

If you were to put a ruler at the butt stock at the latch, and go right up the middle of the patch box, does the line intersect the tang screw, the top of the lock or the pan?  - Just trying to "angle" the box on the wrist and stock.

Thanks all for your feedback -

Jon

[iloco]

I am glad to see Jon posting his work on this special rifle.
 It will be my grandsons after I am through drooling over it for a while.
 Jon is one the nicest persons I have ever dealt with and that speaks a lot of this person.

What ever he decides from all of the comments is fine with me.  Its his build and what I receive will be a master piece.
 The star I think is just right for me.  Two big and it distracts is my way of thinking.
As I said what ever Jon decides is fine with me.
Its going to be hard to every thank Jon enough for doing this rifle for me.
 I will post a picture of my grandson holding the rifle when it is in my possesion.

[David Price]

Kingsburryarms,
I was wondering what you have been doing.  Looks like you are well into another masterpiece.

I feel that the barrel is sticking out just a bit too far beyond the nose cap, but a lot of builders like them that way.

I realize that the star for the cheek piece is not in yet.  When you do inlet it turn it upside down so that the square edge is up, not the round edge.

I also feel that the patch box is a little too wide and I see that you have already addresssed that.
The original rifle that Fiddler posted is a wonderful example of how the patch box should look.  I do like the domed box better than the flat also.  As far as the angle of the box is concerned everyone seems to have there own idea of what looks good.  May God forgive me but I think the tail end of the box on the original could have been  lifted slightly.  I don't like copying originals for that reason.  If I think something on an original does not look good I have a hard time getting myself to duplicate it.  I have build a few rifles myself that I wouldn't copy either.

Iloco,
You are very fortunate to have Jon building that rifle for you.  You are also right, you couldn't find a nicer,  easier going, exceptionally talented person to build that rifle for you.  It will be a beauty.

David Price

[Mike Brooks]

I'd throw that star in the crapola can.

[Mike Brooks]

Kingsburryarms,
I was wondering what you have been doing.  Looks like you are well into another masterpiece.

I feel that the barrel is sticking out just a bit too far beyond the nose cap, but a lot of builders like them that way.

I realize that the star for the cheek piece is not in yet.  When you do inlet it turn it upside down so that the square edge is up, not the round edge.

I also feel that the patch box is a little too wide and I see that you have already addresssed that.
The original rifle that Fiddler posted is a wonderful example of how the patch box should look.  I do like the domed box better than the flat also.  As far as the angle of the box is concerned everyone seems to have there own idea of what looks good.  May God forgive me but I think the tail end of the box on the original could have been  lifted slightly.  I don't like copying originals for that reason.  If I think something on an original does not look good I have a hard time getting myself to duplicate it.  I have build a few rifles myself that I wouldn't copy either.

Iloco,
You are very fortunate to have Jon building that rifle for you.  You are also right, you couldn't find a nicer,  easier going, exceptionally talented person to build that rifle for you.  It will be a beauty.

David Price

Really?  from a 99.95 CNC finished kit gun? Seems every body is a "professional" gun builder after they get a couple kits under their belts these days.

[rich pierce]

Now don't play the curmudgeon cause your shoulder's sore, Mike!

I reckon one could build a masterpiece on the shoulders of a master without being a master.  Or I'm talking gibberish.

Bivins wrote that he considered precarved stocks similar to "having an apprentice."  I'd agree that was true in his case and a small percentage of others. The point is he was a master and a master could have an apprentice.  He had mastered the skills of working from a blank. And then making a masterpiece. 

Nuff said. Maybe split the topic into a philosophical discussion of what makes a master.

Back to topic, the benefits/hazards of posting work in progress is sorting through suggestions and figuring which will make it better and still "your gun". 

So far some good suggestions.  Looks like this is being built for a customer or friend so their preferences come into play.

[Kingsburyarms]

iloco - it's my honor to help you with a rifle build, Thank you for the kind and generous comments, this is your rifle, and if you are happy, so am I.

David, you have been a second father to me over the past year or so, and your input, ideas, and motivation are not only inspiring, but held very close to my heart, I will be there on the 4th of July, and I will look forward to seeing my friend again. I will flip the star
 over as you suggested ... and I have made a Sterling silver hunters moon for you..

Rich, Thank you for your support on my journey to learning this craft from all directions. You inspire. It is a risk"exposing your build" but with all risk comes reward.

Mike, I can not tell you how impressed I am with your skill, your true dedication to the craft, your ability to build and stay true to the values and the way that rifles were built a few hundred years ago. I will never, in my remaining years, reach your skill level on making a rifle from a blank piece of wood and a few pieces of iron. What I will do is take the talents of David, Jim, Rich, you and others, and continue the craft of making rifles to share with friends, family and next generations. I will tell stories of friendship and honor, I will learn more about wood working and metal forging, engraving and carving, I will read books, take advice, make mistakes and end up with something that a gunsmith from 1790 would say "good job", I will listen to Jim Chambers and Barbie on what they have learned, and I will teach other what I learn. I see that your physical body is having a tougher time that your spirit and skill. Pass it on, with proactive and constructive advise (although you are the best comic relief and "i told you so" forum contributor I know).   

As I start this journey, as all apprentice craftsmen start, I will take what is done and make it better by applying my craft and style by using the tools and the technology that is available to me, trying to stay traditional and true to what this forum stands for.  Please, in my honest request, assist all of us newcomers in learning what you know, I would pay a kings ransom to spend time with you in your shop to learn 1% of what you know, just to continue a craft that is becoming so distant in these next generations. respect and enjoy what Jim Kibler and his endeavors bring to those that do not have your skills, and you can still call it "a masterpiece" even though a CNC machine was used.

As for me, my journey continues, with kits, blanks, self cut wood and the wonderful advice and direction of the best craftsmen a person could ever know. I am lucky to be a part of this journey.

Jon

 

[g2608671@verizon.net]

iloco - it's my honor to help you with a rifle build, Thank you for the kind and generous comments, this is your rifle, and if you are happy, so am I.

David, you have been a second father to me over the past year or so, and your input, ideas, and motivation are not only inspiring, but held very close to my heart, I will be there on the 4th of July, and I will look forward to seeing my friend again. I will flip the star
 over as you suggested ... and I have made a Sterling silver hunters moon for you..

Rich, Thank you for your support on my journey to learning this craft from all directions. You inspire. It is a risk"exposing your build" but with all risk comes reward.

Mike, I can not tell you how impressed I am with your skill, your true dedication to the craft, your ability to build and stay true to the values and the way that rifles were built a few hundred years ago. I will never, in my remaining years, reach your skill level on making a rifle from a blank piece of wood and a few pieces of iron. What I will do is take the talents of David, Jim, Rich, you and others, and continue the craft of making rifles to share with friends, family and next generations. I will tell stories of friendship and honor, I will learn more about wood working and metal forging, engraving and carving, I will read books, take advice, make mistakes and end up with something that a gunsmith from 1790 would say "good job", I will listen to Jim Chambers and Barbie on what they have learned, and I will teach other what I learn. I see that your physical body is having a tougher time that your spirit and skill. Pass it on, with proactive and constructive advise (although you are the best comic relief and "i told you so" forum contributor I know).   

As I start this journey, as all apprentice craftsmen start, I will take what is done and make it better by applying my craft and style by using the tools and the technology that is available to me, trying to stay traditional and true to what this forum stands for.  Please, in my honest request, assist all of us newcomers in learning what you know, I would pay a kings ransom to spend time with you in your shop to learn 1% of what you know, just to continue a craft that is becoming so distant in these next generations. respect and enjoy what Jim Kibler and his endeavors bring to those that do not have your skills, and you can still call it "a masterpiece" even though a CNC machine was used.

As for me, my journey continues, with kits, blanks, self cut wood and the wonderful advice and direction of the best craftsmen a person could ever know. I am lucky to be a part of this journey.

Jon

Well said.  The words "gentleman" and "diplomatic" come to mind. 

[Joe S.]

LOL!Mike has a thick skin,give 'em both barrels and besides it would take a howizter to make a dent.He kids cause he loves

[Hungry Horse]

I agree with Mike, throw the commercially produced hunting star into the parts box. If you want an inlay in the cheek, make a nice simple folk art one out of coin silver, or sterling. IMO, nothing says kit gun more than cookie cutter inlays that are all perfect.

  Hungry Horse

[Joe S.]

Kinda torn about my thoughts following this thread.While I'm still building my first rifle and can't really make constructive comments. The ones made so far seem like good ones as far as the actual rifles go.I think adding personal touches are just that, personal and you have the fellow who's going to get the rifle following the thread.Appears client gave creative license to do what ever but poo pooing the personal touches for the fellow,to each his own.Me,I like hungry horses idea but perhaps the client liked the star and now..........I had a head full of personal touches to make it my own before I really thought about things and decided to keep things on this side of the traditional fence,my two cents

[Kingsburyarms]

Great feedback from all - I took the dimensions from GA Turner, and shaped the box, I will work on the front of the box, as I think it's too "boxy" but the width is getting better, may take another 1/8 inch off of it.

I sat up last night watching the new puppy, and made a brand new star - slightly larger than the one I had, from a sheet of Sterling Silver.  I think I will add a little silver ribbon inlay for rays to make it more "folk Art" Yes, I used measuring equipment and cut exact dimensions, one day my ADD will slow down a little....

We welcome "Ranger" to our family -

Jon



 






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[Kingsburyarms]

I "Domed" the box a little as well -

[Cades Cove Fiddler]

  ... your alignment is looking good .... I would still try to narrow to 1" width and use two screws.....have seen a couple contemporary builds with three, but never an original.....however, which look you like .....the slight dome looks great..... keep posting pix of progress .... !!! ... Regards, CC Fiddler ....

[Adrie luke]

the star is ok when you make a ring around it.
I like the maple
Do you have a drawing of this rifle?


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[Kingsburyarms]

CC - Thanks - I will look at both and see what "fits" best - the two screws fit well with a long front Patch, with a shorter one, well...

Adrie, The circle is a great feature - I believe it will be a little too much for this rifle, as it still have to keep it's mountain roots and I'm keeping the design on the simple side - but an awesome idea... I can ask Jim for the drawings, but I do not have a set... I'm sure there are others that can assist.

 

[iloco]

Simple star looks great to me. I would be ok with a half moon if that would be more appropriate.
 Its Jons call on the cheek piece.

[Maalsral]

I agree that you should get rid of the star. Make a moon with a face or accompanying star. Something folksy which is more typical.