Check for and straighten bent barrel??

[Bigmon]

I have a round barrelled 58 cal rifle I built that I am just not able to get the sights correct on.
There is allot to this gun.  I had to turn the barrel down from approx 1 1/2" OD.  And I have moved the front site several times, as well as made the wide back site because such a large round barrels rear dovetail is too wide for any store bought rear site I could find.
BUT, this thing cuts the same hole.  However the closest I can get it to windage center is about 1" to the right.
As well as I can see I have centered that front site which is soldered on.  And the rear site as well.  I do not want a bent front site or the rear site so far over it is obviously off center.
This barrel must be bent, at least to my eyes.  Which leave allot to be desired.
How can I tell for sure if it is bent and if so how can I straighten it???
Perhaps there is someone out there that can do this for me.
It is the first rifle I had built in over 25 years and the barrel hold some sentimental value for me.  Not to mention that it does indeed shoot well, just dont hit right where I want?
I am in western Pa and would just love to be able to take it to someone not so far from here?
Thanks

[smallpatch]

Well, if it was turned on center, it shouldn't be run out.
Probably the easiest fix would be to move the front sight over.  Wouldn't take much.
Shouldn't be noticeable.

[Hungry Horse]

Unless the barrel has been turned down to the point that dovetailing a new sight base into it is not possible, I would cut a couple of dovetails, and make the sights mechanically adjustable. Soldered on sights are rarely dead on. The other possibility is that the barrel didn't react well to turning it down. Some barrels have quite a bit of built in stress that makes them react if you try to turn them down. This has happened in the past when some barrels are turned from octagon to round. If this is the case straightening it will be problematic.

  Hungry Horse

[jerrywh]

 Wnen you say it shoot 1" off center, at what range. 25 yds or 100 yds or 200 yds?

[yellowhousejake]

The simplest way to check for a bent barrel, for me, is to first remove the breechplug. Lay the barrel in two grooved blocks of wood outside on a bright day. A picnic table works well. Run a thin wire or quality thin string through the bore and put a weight on each end, at least a half pound each, you want the wire taut. Sight through the barrel as you turn it and check that the wire lays flat in the bore. If the barrel is bent, the wire will show a noticable gap somewhere down the barrel on the outside of the bend. It will only show the bend on one side of the bore. You are essentially laying a windage stick down the bore.

This works with straight, tapered, swamped, and octagon barrels. It is the straightness of the bore you are checking, not the consistancy of the outside, which may not be correct. This will not work on choked barrels.

I have seen a barrel straightened on video and it was a frightful sight. Two oak blocks and a lead hammer. I would think that was a very well practiced skill.

I hope that helps.

DAve

[jerrywh]

 Yellowhousejake is telling you a correct method , however it can,t be done after the barrel is rifled because the rifling deflects the shadows in the bore to where you cannot detect any curve.  We still need to know the range of the group.

[Bigmon]

Friends,
I am reading all your remarks with great interest and apprciation.  I really want to get this gun right, but also looking good.
I could, and at one did already had simply bent the front site well over to the right and that made it hit right where I wanted.
But it looked terrible and took up the project again.
The range I am shooting right now is 25 yards.  I can only see so well.
I had been shooting at a printed target with about a 2" bull.
But I finally just shot a ball into a clear area of the target and then shot at the hole.
Aim small - miss small.
That really helped but it is just hitting about an 1" or a little more to the right, every time.
I have the front site as perfect dead center as I can tell but had the rear site too far left.
I have moved that front site several times already and I just cannot see that it can go anymore?
I really would not care about this barrel so much and could live the way it is.  But since it is so consistant I want to try and get it as perfect as I can.
Thanks again

[jerrywh]

 You probably won't want to hear this but the first thing i would do is cone the bore with a proper tool.  All barrels will shoot where ever the last 6" of the barrel is pointing.  1" is a lot at 25yds especially after having moved the sight. I had a real nice custom gun that shot 3" of at 50 yds. I didn't think the barrel was bent so re coned the barrel with a accurate coning tool and then it shot dead on the money. It was shooting 3" at 100 yds. That's as good as I can shoot with a flintlock or percussion  The coning tool should be made of brass and have an accurate pilot that fits the bore about 4 " long. I would then put a laser in that bore and see where it is pointing.  You can do this yourself. Lazer sighters are cheap but they will not put that gun on the money at 100 yds. Close- from then on it's sights.
  I have a suggestion before you do anything. If you have a friend that is a good shot let him or her shoot a pattern with it. You load he shoots.
 Then if it still off you know it is not your eyes.

[Acer Saccharum]

If you have a friend that is a good shot let him or her shoot a pattern with it. You load he shoots.
 Then if it still off you know it is not your eyes.

Absolutely brilliant.

[Bob Roller]

I would take a look at the star burst on the muzzle after the first shot from a clean barrel.
If it's a 6 groove barrel there should be a 6 point "star"in the blast pattern.Irregular gas
escape is seldom looked at but it may be the problem.

Bob Roller

[45-110]

barrels turned on center frequently crawl from perfectly straight due to the influences of stress/heat and the steady rest slightly work hardening a band in the middle. worst one i ever had to fix was my own getz  40" 20 ga. fowler barrel.....man it curled something ferocious.  a bunch of bending  and lead slapping got everything back to point of aim.
best
kw

[jerrywh]

 Bob has a real good point there. I never heard of that before. Super great idea.

[Bigmon]

As always, I appreciate all the advice and ideas.
Many heads are better than one.

I have used the "better shot" idea before and it works well.
My tired eyes have let me down more than a few times.  Thats why I am shooting so close.
In this case the consistant hitting the same hole tells me that this time it might not be me, unless thats kust the way I see the sights??
That could be it.
By the way, this barrel is three lands and grooves, equal width all.  It is I believe a NS Skirmish barrel that is new made with unfinished OD so they can turn them down to fit their original antique civil war muskets that then have new barrels.
It shoots those 510 gr minnie balls well also, but they about kick my head off on a bench, and with only 60 Gr 2F.
This will be a great big game hunting Flinter.  Thats why I used this barrel cause it is made to shoot those big minnie balls, but they shoot patched round balls well also, as this does, just not quite where I want it yet.
1" at 25 yds is 4" at 100 yds, unless I am mistaken.
I dont take hunting shots even that far, but since this barrel does cit the same hole I want it to hit dead on if possible.
Does that make any sense???
Thanks again ya'all

[yellowhousejake]

Yellowhousejake is telling you a correct method , however it can,t be done after the barrel is rifled because the rifling deflects the shadows in the bore to where you cannot detect any curve.  We still need to know the range of the group.

With a string that is true, but I like a fine wire, well shined. Then the difference is easy to spot. Of course, that depends on the twist rate. It works well with anything from 1-10 to 1-48, I have never tried with a really slow twist barrel.

I favor the idea of a second shooter. If it is your eyes on the sights that is the problem, you could make a new rear sight from any old piece of tin and stick it over your existing sight. Test a few different sight pictures.

Was the sun always shining from the same side when you fired the rifle? I had a student whose groups went from left to right through the day, morning to afternoon. We taped a hood over his shiny front sight and his groups snapped right back to center the next three shots.

DAve

[Daryl]

Go ahead and either fix the sights to shoot on at 25 and 50, or bend the barrel. Quite simple - one or the other. due to dove tails, it will not take much movement of the rear sight to centre it. Procrastination will not get you sighted it.  Just a thought.

[bob in the woods]

Is the edge of the front sight true , i.e. square /90 degrees to the bore ?  I've seen them filed on a slight angle, which can effect the sight picture as the light varies.   1 inch is a fair amount to be off at 25 yards, but then, who hits the centre every time even at that distance ?  If the muzzle checks out OK, having someone else shoot the rifle might be a good idea.

[Barry Myers]

YellowhouseJake, Where did you see the barrel being straightened?  I have a shotgun barrel that needs straightening.  It is either have the barrel straightened or cut it off and have chokes put in it.  It is an old Long Tom single shot Stevens, so I would just as soon have it straightened.

Thanks for the help.  Barry

[yellowhousejake]

YellowhouseJake, Where did you see the barrel being straightened?  I have a shotgun barrel that needs straightening.  It is either have the barrel straightened or cut it off and have chokes put in it.  It is an old Long Tom single shot Stevens, so I would just as soon have it straightened.

Thanks for the help.  Barry

It was a decade ago on some historical archive deep in the interwebs. It took two hours to download the video. It may be easier to find now and streamed to boot. The video showed workers at Enfield assembling SMLE rifles during WWI. The barrel inspector sighted down the barrel using a wire and if it was bent, marked it with chalk, laid it on two wood blocks, and gave it a wack with a lead faced mallet. I nearly pee'd my pants when I saw him do it.

I like those old Stevens guns. I have one and my son has another. Good pheasent guns as they can reach out there. Just do not ever fire a slug from a bench with one.

DAve

[Dennis Glazener]

Guys these sound like modern guns and discussions on ALR are restricted to side lock ML only. 
Dennis

[Levy]

If you are right handed and the gun is shooting 1" to the right, try raising your right elbow straight out when shooting.  A lot of folks drop their elbow and it will send the ball to the right or left if the barrel is canted and not level.  Just a thought.  James Levy

[Bigmon]

Thanks to all,
I am still working at this.
All my shooting is being done off sand bags.
I am going to find someone else to shoot this and see the results before I start whacking it with a hammer or sticking it in the fork of a tree.
Thanks again to all

[Eric Krewson]

I bought an unfired TC sidelock at a flea market, I got a really good deal on it, less than $100.

The barrel is similar to a New Englander but shorter. I was going to sell it or trade it off but had to shoot it first just to see what it would do.  With the sight bottomed out it shoots 6" high with 75gr of 2F and a .490 ball. The gun is an early one with the clunky sight, I may be able to find a later sight that is lower but I might have to bend the barrel. I couldn't sell a gun to somebody knowing it was flawed.

If I bend the barrel slightly will that throw off the under rib mounting hole alignment?