1803 Lock

[54ball]

 For an upcoming NC Mountain rifle, I'm considering the Davis 1803 lock.  Is this a good lock?  I have heard that a double throated cock is hard to adjust.  This may be the Italian 1803s that had a reputation for poor performance.
 I think the 1803 lock would make an interesting southern rifle build.  Ive even considered using more 1803 components like the thimble and patchbox.

[Dave B]

I used this lock on a sea service type pistol. It worked with the double throated cock just fine. How ever mine had problems with a week main spring. It sparks enough to fire the pistol but I would like to see a "Chambers" main spring tension on it for a better shower of sparks.

[JCKelly]

Interesting idea for a Southern rifle. Look on collectorsfirearms.com, go to Antique Longarms, then US Military. There is a Confederate alteration of an 1803, not only converted to perc but with a full forestock added (love the gun, but full gunroom + empty wallet . . . ).

[David Rase]

In Jim Webb's book on triggers and locks Jim illustrated a double throated mountain lock.  It was originally flint but was converted to percussion use by holding a piece of iron in the flint jaws to strike the cap.  I'd go for it if you want.  I think it would be very appropriate.
DMR

[54ball]

There is a Tennessee boys rifle with an 1803 Pistol lock converted to percussion here in the museum.  I'm going to build a Gillespie and I thought the 1803 lock would be interesting.  I was thinking about finishing the rifle as new but with the 1803 lock and patch box aged a little.  Not too much like a 20-30 year old serviceable lock that has seen some use.

[smart dog]

54Ball,
Below is a photo of a long rifle I built using the Harper's Ferry 1803 lock from Davis.  I think the lock is fine and you should have no worries about tuning it.  The only problem I had was I thought the mainspring and frizzen spring were weak.  The lock worked well with no tampering but I eventually made my own frizzen spring and mainspring that were stronger than the springs supplied by Davis. I like strong springs, which is my bias.  I think it would make an attactive lock for your rifle and if you want the springs to be stronger, just anneal, harden, and then temper them as you see fit.  The process is not difficult and there are many posts on this bulletin board that describe the methods.

dave 

[JCKelly]

Just a point about making springs stronger. That is done by opening them up a bit. To keep from breaking the spring, it needs be annealed first, as noted above, then hardened & tempered.

The strength, or stiffness, of a spring has nothing to do with the hardness itself. It has all to do with geometry, i.e., the thickness of the metal and how open is the "V" to begin with.

A soft spring will take a set & not be worth a @!*%, but it will still be "springy" over a small amount of travel.

One hardens & tempers a steel spring so it can bend a lot without taking a set.

Sometimes that is a surprise to people, that hardness does not relate to stiffness. As a rosy cheeked college kid it was an interesting experience, tyring to convince the grey haired guys at B&D of this. 

I do think it is a neat idea for a Southern gun. Here's the Confederate alteration I mentioned earlier.

[TPH]

Interesting idea for a Southern rifle. Look on collectorsfirearms.com, go to Antique Longarms, then US Military. There is a Confederate alteration of an 1803, not only converted to perc but with a full forestock added (love the gun, but full gunroom + empty wallet . . . ).

I've seen that before and it is a very interesting rifle. The lock,  buttplate and patchbox are from a M1803 but the barrel is probably a M1817 Common Rifle. The triggerguard and bands are M1841, all of the above on a completely "new" stock with a buttstock similar to the M1803 and a M1841 forearm. Someone put a lot of work into that one.

[Joey R]

Dave, Nice looking lock. Who color case hardened your lock? I'm building an 1803 and I've not yet decided how I'm going to finish the lock. thanks, Sparky.

[smart dog]

Hi Sparky,
I do all my own color casehardening.  I have an electric burn-out oven and use a bone and wood charcoal pack.  I don't fuss with trying to make my own charcoal but instead buy the stuff from Brownell's.  It is pure, degreased, and very clean burning with little outgassing.  The lock in the picture was wrapped in iron wire to bring out more of the blue tones and then it was heat soaked at 490 degrees F to darken the bronze tones. It came out well. My wonderful wife gave me a programmable oven controller for my birthday. With that I can program the ramping speed, the final temperature, and the soak time.  Now I can walk away from the oven and do other things rather than sit and monitor the pyrometer for a couple of hours.

dave

[David Rase]

I will be case color hardening my Tulle lock Saturday.  Like Dave, I bought the charcol from Brownells,  but unlike Dave,  I do not have a programable furnace.  My furnace in analog, bought it from Brownells also, works great but you have to babysit it for the hour that you are cooking your parts.
DMR

[44-henry]

Dave, what controller are you using? I need a good controller for the furace we have in our lab and would be interested in hearing about yours. Thanks

Alex Johnson

[smart dog]

Hi Alex,
My wife bought me a Paragon Sentry Xpress controller from Rio Grande jewelry supplies.  It is the simplest and least expensive monitor but still cost about $400. It is capable of 4 different programs that each contain up to 8 heating, heat soak, or cooling segments. I wanted it for case hardening but also to experiment with casting gun hardware from precious metal clay. I have a simple NeyCraft electric oven and the controller connects to the oven via the type-K thermocouple wire.  Wiring the connection was trivial. The oven's power cord then plugs into the controller, which turns the oven on and off. I am pretty pleased so far with it. 

dave   

[44-henry]

Dave,
Thanks for the info, the smaller furnace we have in our lab is probably the same one you have, both were purchased at Brownells. Your controller sounds like what I'm looking for and I'll definitely be looking into one in the near future. Babysitting that furnace gets kind of tedious after awhile.

[Sam Everly]

There are several original Gillespie rifles with that style cock on them . The locks where new when used , all have round tails . There is a lock that is a mate to the lock you talked about in the TOW catalog. It has a plain plate , i would use it and round the tail, then it would be like the ones used on the originals.   

[Curt Larsen]

I think Davis also carries an unmarked  lock identical to the Harpers Ferry 1803 for use on a 1792 contract rifle.  Maybe you might want to consider that one too.  The 1803 lock was the kind argued to have been used on the1792 contract rifles modified for the Lewis and Clark expedition. 

[54ball]

 Thank you all for the suggestions.  I think Davis refers to the unmarked lock as the "common" lock.  It is basically an unmarked 1803 with a slightly different tail.  I have considered it for this project also.
  L&R makes a double throat round tailed lock they market to upgrade Lyman, TC, and CVA rifles.  This lock looks very close to one foud on an original Gillespie.  I'm considering it also.
 

[Dave B]

It was this same plain plated lock that I used on my sea service pistol. But make sure you ask them (TOW)about the double throated cock. I wanted it because of the cock and plate size and when it showed up the lock had a goose neck cock on it. I had to order a seprate double throated cock for the project

[hyltoto]

At half cock, the cock is much closer to the frizzen tham on most locks. This makes finding flints a litte mote difficult. They have to more like a square than a rectangle.

I like the lock otherwise. I spent 20 years building a 1803, interrupted by kids etc. and Done Getz kindly helped.

I'll never forget.

The problem is when I got the gun done, my eyes are shot :-(