Carving

[rdillon]

I was looking at the chisel list that Dave Price has as was going to order a few of them.  His tutorial is very informative.  The plunge method scares me a little.  I guess it looks better when its done.  Any ideas???  Is there a proper way? Is his way right?  Need help!

[flintriflesmith]

If you can search the archives you will find a lot of ink devoted to this subject.

Some original rifles were carved by using a V chisel to outline the carving, some were stamped in, and on some you find evidence of both in the same design.

While to me that means the is no "right" way, I would suggest that when making a rifle based on an original,  using the technique that was used by the period maker will make it easier to match the look and feel of the old rifle.

Gary

[LRB]

   The plunge method is correct, but so is using a V chisle. The plunge is faster to learn, and was John Bivins method. I would say, if you are going into gun making as a regular thing, try both. If you are only doing one on occasion, go for the plunge. With the plunge, if your layout is correct, you will have less problems than learning to cut correctly with a V chisle. Bivins could do either, but it was his opinion that the plunge was best for quality carving, in guns, or furniture. He did both, as did, or stills does, Wallace Guslar, whom I believe does the V chisel method. If you want to do one now and then, I would say plunge. If you want to do it regular, and faster, maybe the V chisel, after a lot of practice. Just my opinion as an occasional gun builder. I use an exacto knife to do the plunge work, but use it in a plunge, and cut modem.

[rich pierce]

Having fiddled with both without mastering either:
Plunge plus: No doubt the plunge method gives a more abrupt edge to the work which makes it stand out more.  Casts a better shadow.  Controlled, etc.  No runs, slips or errors. 
Plunge minus: It takes practice to not be tempted to go too deep, cut the background down a lot, and leave the carving too tall.  It's slow until you get used to it. and even then, it's slow on long sweeping lines.

Parting tool plus:Speed and shading of the angle of the cut come naturally to the parting tool chased with a mallet.  Just like a graver.  There's almost no doubt many originals were done quickly with the parting tool.

Parting tool minus:  Tight radius work is very difficult and they are more tough to sharpen and keep sharp.

I think many guns were carved with both and additional techniques, even incised carved guns.  I bet the Liberty Cap (call her what you will) on Lehigh guns was often done zippety zip by twirling half round gouges.

[Acer Saccharum]

There is no easy answer to this question.
It really depends on what style and period gun you're building.
If you like Dave's carving style, then you will need the tools to do it his way.
But before you leap into that, it will really help you to look around at other builder's work to get a feel for what style you might want to try. I say that, because each style uses a certain tool set.

This elegant carving by Jack Brooks might use three tools, maybe two:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vb_Yo_ELC48/SexfdWdpSCI/AAAAAAAAMb0/Z-q7DYOL2_w/s1600-h/100_7703_JBrooks_ret.jpg

A Martin's work, very sophisticated, yet can be done with a handful of tools:
http://www.allenmartinrifles.com/

Eric Kettenburg:
http://web.mac.com/kettenburgs/iWeb/Site/The%20Molls_files/slideshow.html?slideindex=10

Bill Shipman uses only a knife, so he says, and maybe some voo-doo.
http://www.billshipman.com/

This style, by yours truly, is more Euro than American, and requires about six tools, and then a bunch of homemade scrapers. None of this was stabbed.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/Tom45-70/Jaeger/cheek9.jpg

How much carving have you done? What kind of tools do you have?

As you can see, instead of answering your question, I pose a whole bunch more. But it's for me to try to find out where you are at before I start making suggestions.

[rdillon]

I haven't done much but I feel the time is now to carve away!!!!  I have quite a few chisels but lack the gouges to plunge with.  I have used a knife till now but not happy with the results.  Just looking for some advice on how the "pros" do it.

[Acer Saccharum]

Best thing you can do is get some practice pieces of maple and give it a whirl. You will make steady improvement and by the time you are ready to do your rifle, you'll have a lot of practice under your belt.

A brief tutorial: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=12.0

[rdillon]

Best thing you can do is get some practice pieces of maple and give it a whirl. You will make steady improvement and by the time you are ready to do your rifle, you'll have a lot of practice under your belt.

A brief tutorial: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=12.0

Thats very informative.  Thanks

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I got it into my head that I wanted to build a rifle that would hopefully turn out with the flavour of a Jacob Kuntz rifle.  There are two on display in the MET and I was generously provided with some wonderful reference material courtesy of Tom Curran.  I studied all of the images of Kuntz rifles that I had in my library as well, and then went at it.
When it came time for the carving, I observed that the master used a combination of parting tool cuts, and plunge cuts, and some chip carving to boot.  His carving was bold and deep, and not especially crisp, having a soft and mellow "feel" about it.  So I tried to do the same.  Here's some pictures I took of the process.







And that's great work LRB...thanks for letting us see those pictures.

Mr. Dillon, my advice to you and anyone else who WANTS to do carving, is just to dig in and do it.  Let the chips fall where they may.  You'll make mistakes and there'll be parts you're not happy with, as always happens in my own work, but that's what makes carving interesting, both to do and to examine.

[Stophel]

I can do a lot of relief work with a V tool, but I can't do really tight curves.  That's about the only thing I "stab" in.

Actually, I end up probably doing most outlining with a knife...

[Madcaster]

 Acer,I believes that you are a glutton for punishment,as well as a patient man!Good work!

[Paddlefoot]

Was all that checkering and cross hatching done with a v tool or a checkering tool like a dem bart?  Fabulous work. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Yes, a Dem Bart 60 degree set @ 18 tpi.  Or maybe it was 16 tpi!?  I can't remember.  I DO know that I was careful to measure the original, and replicated that.

[t.caster]

I wood also reccomend practicing on scraps, but round them somewhat, not flat. Working over and around a curved surface is a whole different game.
I use a 2mm V tool for all my layout work.  Then I knife cut along the bottom of the groove w/ an exacto blade, so the background can be removed cleaner.
Stabbing in is slow and boring to me, and not necessary for American Roccoco work, which is what I like to do.
But, do try every method described and when you find one that works best for you, stick with it.

[rdillon]

Hopefully I can care as good as Taylor.  Your work is beautiful!!!!  I will practice on a scrap(rounded, not flat) piece when my new chisels arrive and post it so it can be critiqued.