Brain Fuzz and Grouping

[thecapgunkid]

OMG ( my kids taught me that)  Rascal, my cute little .54/ 20 Ga smoothbore that I posted on several months ago, won't group tighter than 3 or 4 inches at a benched 25 yards.

That's load...right?  You start with powder...right?  No wait!!...ball and patch first, right???

Thanks

Capgun

[Maven]

capgun, Two suggestions:  Take a look at Mike Beliveau's findings & video, which is excellent btw, http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=44851.0 and maybe add a card stock over powder wad to your loading regimen.

[thecapgunkid]

Thanks, Maven.  Been there, done that and have the mug.  I always look for Mikes Videos.

However....this is the first time in a long time I had to think about this sort of thing.  The group is in a three inch circle at twenty five or thirty.  My guns don't go off the bench unless two of five rounds are touching, and I never think as much as Mike B and most of the other gurus out there.  I like to start walking out of my shop as if in the 18th century where technology and measurement were at a minimum and walk back in with and exact idea of load and point of aim.

Vanity.. I guess,  but my Charleville grouped that way and my hissy fit is because the little 28 gauge won't, with or without the wad.  I can't remember what to do first.

[hanshi]

My .62 smoothbore, "Ol Loudmouf", Probably groups some better than that at 25 yards; at least with prb.  I also like bare ball loads for paper plate or smaller groups at 50 yards.  But mine has a rear sight and I simply shoot it like I shoot my rifles.  I do use op card wads with a felt 1/4" lubed wad on top of that.  The lubed wad is seated along with the ball and top card as one unit.  Shoots pretty good at the distances that I get shots at deer.  And I seldom get good groups from a bench with rifle or smoothbore; I do better shooting from field positions (which ain't nothing to brag about).

[hanshi]

Oh, and you want to talk about "brain fuzz"; I have enough fuzz that if I shave my brain I could probably make a felt hat.

[Hungry Horse]

Is this a swivel breech, or are the barrels fixed? If it's a swivel it might be movement at the breech upon firing.

  Hungry Horse

[oldtravler61]

  Cap does your gun have a consistent movement in the trigger. As you know it can make a big difference in the size of your group. All things being equal.
 J m 2c Oldtravler

[Canute Rex]

Are the groups random, more of a horizontal string, or more of a vertical string? Is there a sequence to where the shots go?

Have you changed your ball casting procedure lately? Try weighing a few for variation.

The basic question is, what changed? You? The load? The powder brand? The lead?

[thecapgunkid]

Thanks, gents.

The group is circular around the orange bull.  Judging by the follow through the gun is pretty well anchored at the bench and there is no dull thump that suggests too little powder.  I just can't remember what to work on first.

[Hungry Horse]

I'm confused, are we talking about the .54 or the 20 gauge? I must have missed something here.

  Hungry Horse

[thecapgunkid]

28 gauge.  That was a typo.  I bought it for the convenience of shooting my favorite capiber.  Once I get past  540 round ball the gun gets uncomfortable.  Thanks, Horse.

[Hungry Horse]

Lose the patch, and or cards/wads, use an undersized ball, and jack up the powder charge. With no wads or patches, recoil, and excess pressure, will melt away. Accuracy will improve if it a gun/ load issue.

  Hungry Horse

[oldtravler61]

  Capgun are their any sights on your gun?
  Being how your hits are in a circle. Maybe it's an inconsistent sight picture.
  Had a smoothie driving me crazy. Let my friend Duprey shoot it same load an bingo! Instant tight group. But then you know more about what your dealing with than me. Oldtravler

[Frank]

Lose the patch, and or cards/wads, use an undersized ball, and jack up the powder charge. With no wads or patches, recoil, and excess pressure, will melt away. Accuracy will improve if it a gun/ load issue.

  Hungry Horse

What holds the ball in place? Tow wad over the ball???

[Hungry Horse]

Frank;

  Towe, piece of wool blanket scrap, or a chunk of hornets nest. A dab of bear grease, or venison tallow, will help keep the fowlings soft. The undersized ball is a major factor. The ball will carom off the walls of the barrel if it is too near bore size.

  Hungry Horse

[thecapgunkid]

Horse et al;

Using a patched ball, .520 with a .020 patch, and a wonder wad atop the powder.

I use the sight picture that has given me the best results in all my guns;  high thick blade the base of which centers at the cut in the base of the rear sight and where the top of the sight is at the milled top of the bowl of the rear  sights horns.  This is a neighborhood play of the ole M-1 and M-14 sights.  When you get older and have vision issues, this works better than conventional sight and groove.  My other guns are all at 1-1 1/2 inch on the orange bull at 25 yards and 2-3 on the orange bull at 50 yards.

Because it's grouping around the bull, the question originally was what  topic do I start with?

I know what to do, I just forgot what order to do it in.

Thanks

Capgun

[Hungry Horse]

You should remember those military sight you refer to are designed for young people, with at least 20/20 vision. Theodore Roosevelt was a great shooter, with a lifelong battle with poor eyesight. He also had enough disposable income, to devote an emmence amount of time and money to finding the sight combination the worked for those with poor eyesight. He recommended a rear sight with a gradual V leading to a round bottomed notch. The front sight was a bright metal, or ivory, barley corn sight that perfectly fit the notch in the rear sight, with little or no room for light on the sides. The gradual V forces your eyes to sharpen their focus. A sight shade even improves on this system if your shooting discipline allows it.

  Hungry Horse

[Don Stith]

What are you resting the gun on and at what portion of the gun are you resting it for your bench shooting?
  When sighting in a gun or rifle from a bench for offhand shooting; I get best results by holding the gun with non- trigger hand at normal forearm position and resting the back of that hand on a sandbag. The butt of stock is in normal shoulder position
  That gets me closest to same point of impact as a shot fired off-hand and most consistent.
 My memory might be off but that sounds like an undersized ball you are using

  Seems to me I used a 520 patched ball in a 28 gage and a 600 in the 20 gage

[thecapgunkid]

Thanks, folks.  I'll figure it out...

[Daryl]

What are you resting the gun on and at what portion of the gun are you resting it for your bench shooting?
  When sighting in a gun or rifle from a bench for offhand shooting; I get best results by holding the gun with non- trigger hand at normal forearm position and resting the back of that hand on a sandbag. The butt of stock is in normal shoulder position
  That gets me closest to same point of impact as a shot fired off-hand and most consistent.
 My memory might be off but that sounds like an undersized ball you are using

  Seems to me I used a 520 patched ball in a 28 gage and a 600 in the 20 gage

dittto