Decisions to make....

[Stonedog]

OK Gents I have a decision to make.

I am doing my first build, a plain H. Rupp .54 smoothbore.

I need to decide whether to install a liner OR pull the breech plug and use an internal coning tool.

This is the only part of the project that has me worried.  I have used taps before, not much but some and I do own a drill press.

What are y'alls thought?

[Mike Brooks]

OK Gents I have a decision to make.

I am doing my first build, a plain H. Rupp .54 smoothbore.

I need to decide whether to install a liner OR pull the breech plug and use an internal coning tool.

This is the only part of the project that has me worried.  I have used taps before, not much but some and I do own a drill press.

What are y'alls thought?

This is the only part of the project that has me worried.

Hmmmm- confident aren't we..... I'd go with a liner if i were building it for me. Ever shot a Rupp style gun in .54? I hope you have your architecture figured out right.

[rich pierce]

If you don't like the looks of the stainless liners contact Chambers. They make them in non -stainless steel.

Or use Tom Snyder's internal coning tool. It's a dandy.

[Stonedog]

I haven't. I've had a .62 fowler and a .50 Haines...but love the Federal Era...so here I go!

Got my stuff from MBS...so at least that part is figured out for me already!

[Stonedog]

That's my dilemma. I don't want to screw up my barrel....so do I plug the breech plug or install a liner...

[Mike Brooks]

That's my dilemma. I don't want to screw up my barrel....so do I plug the breech plug or install a liner...

Whats that mean?

[Hungry Horse]

Unless you have a strange build indeed, the shape of a typical Rupp is going to be abusive in .54 cal.. There is a very good reason you rarely find original guns of this school in large calibers. Correspondingly, it is also the reason you sometimes find modern built guns of this school in large calibers that show little or no wear, and are often for sale cheap. Just sayin'.

  Hungry Horse

[Stonedog]

Hey Mike!

I guess I'm sayin what's more idiot proof?

Removing the breech plug and using an internal coning tool

OR

Drilling, tapping and installing a touch hole liner.

Trust me, after 17 years of marriage I'm positive I'm an idiot.

Just ask the missus 

[Stonedog]

As to the caliber:

This will be a smooth rifle and  mostly used for squirrels and rabbits. I love hunting small game, but it will see use in my state's two whitetail muzzleloader seasons.

I'm not a competition shooter at all, so it will probably get less than a dozen to fifteen round ball shots a year once it is sighted in...as sighted in as a smooth rifle will be anyway.

[smylee grouch]

Some people remove the breech plug when they install a vent liner.

[PPatch]

Welcome to ALR Stonedog.

Tapping is not difficult, but you do have to go carefully with the operation. Begin with a sharp tap, a new one works the best. You can start the tap on the drill press then move to a vice to complete the operation. Go slow, when you feel the tap resisting back out, clear the chips, re-lube and go back in, do this often and use plenty of lubrication, I use 30wt motor oil and have for decades. One of the most important aspects is to not use force at any time, allow the tool to do the work, or you will break the tap off in the hole. Slow and easy does it.

You will want the proper tap drill size and a chamfering bit to put a flare around your hole. Jim Chambers White Lightnin' liners come with instructions. I use his 1/4" liners, if you use that size and mess up then you can go to the next size up and do it again.

dave

[Chowmi]

Stonedog,
What some of the guys here are lightly implying with their responses is that if it is indeed your first build, and the only thing you are worried about is the touch-hole, then it gives the impression that you don't know what you are in for.
This is by no means intended to sound arrogant, but there are much more difficult things to do than a touch hole liner in your build.
None of this is meant to discourage you in any way from building this gun. Instead, it is an encouragement to take it slow, learn from books and this forum, and ask questions before you do something.
Installing the touch hole liner can be left till nearly the end. By which time you will have learned a lot of skills that will make it easier (assuming you don't have those skills already).

My point is, that it's your first build, and there are a lot of things to get right long before you do the touch hole. Concentrate on them first.

If you are working from a kit/pre-carve stock, even though the rough architecture is there, there is still a lot of wood to remove, andd that is after several assembly tasks.

Good luck with your build, I'll leave the detail advice to guys who know better than me and just say that you should put the horse in front of the cart and worry about barrel inletting, buttplate, lock inletting/placement and a hundred other things first.

Take it from a guy who dived in to his first build with massive over confidence, take it one step at a time.

Cheers,
Norm.

[Dennis Glazener]

Begin with a sharp tap, a new one works the best. You can start the tap on the drill press then move to a vice to complete the operation.

PPatch is correct but I never move my barrel out of the drill press vice. I lock it in the proper place so the drill bit aligns with the center punched hole. Then drill the tap hole then put my tap in a tap wrench and align the end of the tap using a pointed center in my drill press chuck. Then use the drill press quill to maintain pressure on the tap to get the tap started. Releasing the quill when I back up the tap to break the thread then put pressure back on when going deeper. Once I am satisfied the tap has started well enough to follow the tap hole I quit using the chuck/quill. When finished cutting the threads I use a countersink to just barely counter sink the liner per the instructions withe the liner. By leaving the barrel/chuck lined up I insure everything is in alignment.
Dennis

[Stonedog]

No worries Norm!

Maybe I should have phrased it:

The only thing that worries me at this moment, today, in the last 20 minutes is the touch hole

 

I'm thick skinned too...and almost impossible to offend!

[jerrywh]

I do it the same way as Dennis. That way the tap is always started correctly.  When I start the tap I turn the chuck with a metal rod that fits the key hole in the chuck. I do not run the drill press when tapping. Use tapping oil.

[smallpatch]

You've picked one of the most difficult styles to build for your first gun.  The proper architecture is difficult to achieve.  I'm not aware of any precarves that are available that are even close to a Rupp stock.
As far as drilling and tapping goes, you still have the tang bolt, and lock nails that must be tapped as well.
I read that you already have the parts???  If not, maybe start with a more straight stock pattern.  Easier architecture, and easier on the body in large calibers
I just finished a 28 gage smoothrifle that I had to reshape the buttstock to make it less abusive.

[Mike Brooks]

Hey Mike!

I guess I'm sayin what's more idiot proof?

Removing the breech plug and using an internal coning tool

OR

Drilling, tapping and installing a touch hole liner.

Trust me, after 17 years of marriage I'm positive I'm an idiot.

Just ask the missus 

I think I get it now.....You're going to have to remove the breech plug to install a liner or use a coning tool. In fact you'll need to take the breech plug out to inlet the barrel into the wood at the breech, then put the plug back in and inlet it. It's no big deal to take the plug out, put the barrel in a vise and put a wrench on the plug and turn it out.
  Save all you worrying for inletting your lock or buttplate or rear ram rod pipe.

[Stonedog]

See y'all...told ya....I'm an idiot.

I've already got the parts...so go big or go home I guess!

Mike-
This stock is already inlet for the barrel and the lock is about 90% if I had to put a figure to it...

An area that isn't inlet is the breech plug and tang.

Would you suggest that I go ahead and remove the breech plug, correct?

[SingleMalt]

Smallpatch is 100% correct.  The Lehigh school is certainly one of the most difficult to build.  I spent more time siting on my anvil studying the lines of the stock than I did working on it.  Well, almost.  Were I in your place, I'd build something easier to build and shoot.  Lancaster, York, and Lebanon schools come to mind at once.

I'd also suggest buying at least one good book for building.  "Recreating The American Longrifle" is about as good as they get. 

[Stonedog]

Well, I've already bought the stock, lock, barrel, trigger, guard and buttplate from Muzzleloader Builder Supply...so I'm pretty much stuck at this point...and I doubt one of y'all are gonna buy me out for what I paid...

ALSO I want a smoothrifle...

[Mike Brooks]

See y'all...told ya....I'm an idiot.

I've already got the parts...so go big or go home I guess!

Mike-
This stock is already inlet for the barrel and the lock is about 90% if I had to put a figure to it...

An area that isn't inlet is the breech plug and tang.

Would you suggest that I go ahead and remove the breech plug, correct?

correct. And don't get to thinking any of this is going to be easy. I suspect disaster aplenty on the horizon..... Send all that stuff off for somebody to build it for you while you still can.

[Stonedog]

Looks like I have 780$ of parts...@!*% expensive mistake.

I just can't afford more to have someone build it for me.

Oh well....

[PPatch]

Have you done anything to the parts? MBS is good people so perhaps you could exchange the Lehigh kit for something less daunting to build and less punishing to shoot. A plain early Virginia might be a consideration.

dave

[Stonedog]

Yes they are great folks. I've already sent back parts to exchange for what just came today...the Rupp parts.

I don't want to continue to do that. It's not fair to them and everyone has their limit to patience.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Your first step is to get information, which I know you are seeking here.  But the internet isn't the best tool with which to get information.  The book already listed above is where you need to start.  I recommend you read it cover t cover before you touch your expensive parts with file, saw, or chisel.  Then you will be much more confident about all the little bites of this elephant you are about to take.  You will read it and re-read it and finally light bulbs will come on and you'll be better informed.
All of us who build these things, have techniques that vary from one and another, though they all work.  You'll develop your own, and that's a good thing.  But trying to go with what one or another of us says about a particular step will only confuse and frustrate you.  So stick with one reference work, and study it hard.  Many of us started there, before there was the internet.