Priming powder

[thecapgunkid]

Standing Bear..."Hmmm.  Guess we should shoot Fg?"

Hey!!! I got a great idea...Put the nipple in line with the barrel, add a scope and make the load a single, cylindrical pellet to ,make loading easier on the hunter....Nah! It'll never take...

[Daryl]

To each his own on 3f vs 4f.  But 15 shots  from one flint is an excessive waste of rocks in MHO.   We can get into a whole new conversation bevel up/down, etc.   On a new flint, before I start whacking at it I put the flint on the bottom surface of the frizzen and with thumb pressure drag it backwards up the frizzen which will break off minute crumbs sharpening the stone without radical knapping.  That can be done later when dragging doesn't do the deed.  I have two Silers and it seems to do the trick.  Typically I get 75-100 per flint.

I do it similarly. Works for me too. Typically 50 shots to a flint, but sometimes get to use the same rock for 2 Sunday shoots - just about 100 shots. Most locks I have are L&R & Silers.

[JCKelly]

Pray tell, Don Adams, just what brand of 3F/4F were you using?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

My first rifle, in 1972, was a T/C "Hawken" flintlock in .50 calibre.  The only powder I could get was Meteor Fg Cannon powder.  I used it as main charge and prime, and it worked fine.  I was stationed on the Queen Charlotte Islands (Haida Gwaii) then, and shot dozens of coastal blacktailed deer with that rifle.
Since then, I and my shooting equipment have evolved.  I use 4Fg for prime - always.

[Darkhorse]

I don't understand all the problems some of you are having with 4fg. I doubt anybody hunts in conditions of more humidity, heat and dampness than I do and all I've primed with has been 4fg for well over 20 years. It's true, I had some problems early on with the 4fg becoming soupy. But now I remove the lock and using alcohol wipe all excess oil from the bolster, from the pan area, frizzen and flint. And the barrel is degreased also. I plug the TH and pour enough alcohol down the barrel to fill the cone in the TH, then using a wet alcohol patch start it down the barrel, remove the toothpick and ram the patch down hard. All the oil and crud will jet out of the TH. I let the barrel dry then load it. I do this each time I'm going out to hunt.
I check the prime often and I have rarely needed to change it.
When practice shooting I wipe the pan and all often and use alcohol when needed.
I don't get failure to fire. Period. My rifles are going to go off every time if I do my prep. work properly. It's all on me, not the powder.
I firmly believe that just a little oil and humidity and heat will ruin 4fg in the pan. Maybe 3f also but I don't know.

[Turtle]

 I was told that 4f is uncoated and 3f is coated-is this true? I use only 3f and don't want to be bothered taking a priming horn-besides they aren't period correct are they?

[Don Adams]

Both powders that I use are Goex.

[Darkhorse]

I was told that 4f is uncoated and 3f is coated-is this true? I use only 3f and don't want to be bothered taking a priming horn-besides they aren't period correct are they?

Turtle, I've heard the same thing, read it somewhere. But I honestly don't know whether 4f is coated or not. I don't carry a priming horn. I carry to much stuff as it is. I just slip one of those brass push-button primers in my pocket or shooting bag. These things will put about 3 grains per push in your pan.
We used to think that priming horns were what they used back then but I think they just primed from the same horn they loaded from.
I have several cans of GO 4FG stuck back. But I would like to try some of that swiss priming powder as it's supposed to be much faster. I don't need to order a quantity as I'm pretty set in powder for a lot of shooting without worrying about running out. If I could buy one can locally I'd get it.

[Marcruger]

I am with Darkhorse.  I wipe the oil from my pan with alcohol before shooting.  If I have time, I wipe the pan, frizzen face,  and flint edge between shots with a cloth.  I prime with NullB after reading Larry Pletcher's wonderful testing.  Works like a charm.  Since I shoot mainly 2f, I am not planning on priming with that, so I carry a primer full of NullB Swiss with me.  Best wishes,   Marc

[hanshi]

I lived and hunted in Georgia for 62 years and was born and acclimated there.  Then nearly 10 years ago we moved to Va; still humid.  But nothing I've ever experienced compared with that Ga heat  &  humidity.  I never thought much about it until I moved away and realized the sauna I had lived in; I kinda miss it, actually.

I hunted deer with flintlocks in nice weather, thick fog, mist and light rain.  Never did I have a problem with the 4F in the pan.  The only time the pan got wet/soupy was in humid weather AFTER a shot was fired.  It was then I realized all I had to do was wipe out the pan and was then good to go.  Keeping the lock under my armpit, or in cold weather - we had that on occasion - under my coat; it never got wet until it was fired.  I use 4F and have a good supply of it.  In those instances I've run out or have been caught without it, 3F worked just fine.

[Daryl]

I lived and hunted in Georgia for 62 years and was born and acclimated there.  Then nearly 10 years ago we moved to Va; still humid.  But nothing I've ever experienced compared with that Ga heat  &  humidity.  I never thought much about it until I moved away and realized the sauna I had lived in; I kinda miss it, actually.

I hunted deer with flintlocks in nice weather, thick fog, mist and light rain.  Never did I have a problem with the 4F in the pan.  The only time the pan got wet/soupy was in humid weather AFTER a shot was fired.  It was then I realized all I had to do was wipe out the pan and was then good to go.  Keeping the lock under my armpit, or in cold weather - we had that on occasion - under my coat; it never got wet until it was fired.  I use 4F and have a good supply of it.  In those instances I've run out or have been caught without it, 3F worked just fine.

Exactly!

[Darkhorse]

It's true we used to have cold weather in Georgia during the fall and winter months but each year we have less and less. Hardly any last season. Just more warm and humid days to deal with.

[galudwig]

Larry Pletcher has done some work on this...

https://www.blackpowdermag.com/priming-powder-timing/

One of the take home points from Larry's article is that in addition to humidity, sharpness of the flint can also affect ignition times. Adding to that mix is the position of the vent and the position of the powder in the pan when ignited (Larry all has several articles on those subjects as well that are well worth reading).

Bottom line, it's impossible for humans to detect noticeable differences in ignition times between various grades of powder. If you can, it's likely because your flint needs some attention. I know with my own rifles that if I can detect the dull clunk made by the frizzen opening, it's time to check the sharpness of my flint.

I've also never had problems using 4f.  When hunting, I frequently check my prime and replace it if I see any irregularities. I routinely change out my prime mid-day when I break for lunch. So far, I've never had a "klacth" on game following that routine.  I've used 3f to prime too. I've tried 2f, but felt it was not as consistent as the smaller grained stuff.

[hanshi]

It's true we used to have cold weather in Georgia during the fall and winter months but each year we have less and less. Hardly any last season. Just more warm and humid days to deal with.

I can remember being out on a sweltering day in November; this particular hunt occurred about 35 years ago.  The temp got into the 80s that day.  I shot a buck in very long grass and could only see his neck/head and a bit of shoulder.  I thought he was broadside and fired at the rear of the shoulder.  But he was not broadside but facing me at a slight angle.  Being late evening with little daylight left I started tracking him; I saw the direction he ran.  Major, major blood trail but darkness stopped me and i had no flashlight.  Next morning at first light found me back where I lost the trail.  I didn't have to go too much farther until I found him.  Heat had soured the meat so I just took the rack; only time I ever had to do that.

I also remember going out mornings when the leaves crunched from ice which melted by 8:00 AM.  Yep, there were mornings like that but I think you're correct; winters started tending toward warmer.  As a kid I loved to go out in December and have fun with firecrackers.  Lots of frozen water sometimes.  Back in the 70s I drove by a pond that was frozen (January, I believe).  I hefted a 25lb rock and heaved it out onto the ice.  The rock skidded but didn't crack the ice.  I remember that year being a particularly cold one, according to the weather man.

[deepcreekdale]

If I recall correctly, several years ago, the Bevel Brothers did extensive testing using both 3f and 4f and there was no difference in ignition times. They used very modern testing equipment and high speed photography. In the old days, there was no such thing as "priming powder" such as 4f. When loading muskets for example, powder from the cartridge was placed in the pan and the frizzen closed before pouring the load down the barrel and that was very course powder, probably what we could call cannon powder today. The only advantage to 4f is it flows a little easier in priming chargers than 3f does.

[Matt / PA]

I apologize if I'm breaking any rules with this link...... I won't be offended if it goes "Poof" if I am.
 it's an oldie but a goodie. 
Really appreciate Larry Pletcher's effort in this study.

https://www.blackpowdermag.com/priming-powder-timing/

[Dennis Glazener]

No rules broken, feel free to post video's just remember only of sidelock ML's and associated accoutrements.
Dennis

[Larry Pletcher]

I reckon I should speak up since the priming powder testing mentioned above was mine. The testing included 20 trials each of Swiss Null B, Swiss 4f, two samples of Goex 4f, Goex 3f and 2f.  There is definitely a difference in priming powders.  Please read the article for the rest of the story, but let me start you off with this:

The fastest 3f trial (among 20) was slower than the slowest time recorded for Swiss Null B.

Human senses are terrible tools to determine priming powder speeds.  I believe if you can hear a difference, the delay was caused by something else - like fouling, poor flint edge, lock management, etc. (I realize this puts me out on a limb.)

Regards,
Pletch