To build or buy?

[Woodsrunner79]

So, after reading an interesting discussion in the Contemporary Longrifle page of the forum pertaining to what constitutes a truly custom rifle. I thought I'd ask this question.

Is it more advantageous to build your first quality Longrifle or to buy one?
I'll use my own circumstances for  example. I have, no shop. little to no hand tools and even less experience woodworking. But I truly believe that if I buy a good quality kit and take me time I'll be able to build a rifle that'll be proud to own.
Or
Do I just take the $1,500-1,800 I'm prepared to spend in the spring and try to either buy used or commission a gun. My reasoning here being that, better to be out enjoying the rifle than to be inside stuck on a build I might not be able to complete.

Thoughts, gentlemen.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

If you are not completely invested, and insanely excited about building yourself a rifle, don't do it.  Many of us have a shop full of tools that we have accumulated over a lifetime, and are still buying chisels and files.  Unless you are driven, your project is likely doomed.  If shooting the rifle is your goal, rather than the build itself, then buy one and fly at it.
The true artisan who actually lives for the satisfaction of creating something with his own hands, and is not satisfied unless he is continuously doing that, is in my case at least, least interested in actually shooting the rifle.  This may be because I have a stable full of my rifles and can't remember what it was like at the beginning.  Not quite true - I remember it vividly.  I started out with an inexpensive T/C "Hawken" and soon found I wanted more and better, so did my research, bought the NECESSARY tools, and put steel to wood.  But I'm one of those that has to be continuously creating, or my day is not fulfilled.   You alone know your own mind.

[WKevinD]

Tread carefully! Building is more an addiction than a singular satisfying activity.
No doubt you will learn a lot about what to do next time and how you could have done this or that a little better.
Don't get me wrong a kit like Jim Kibler's will produce an attractive well made gun and I would encourage you to go in that direction but once you have a taste for it yer screwed.
Buying a finished gun is nice but you need to spend some time looking and learning and avoiding the thought that "I could do that"
Kevin

[Ray Settanta]

I doubt that you will be able to commission a new rifle from a well regarded maker for that sum of money. Most of them may have waiting lists also. You did not mention what school of rifle you wanted. If you like the Southern Mountain type, you can't beat a kit from Jim Kibler. There are a few threads on here about his kit and his website has a lot of good information. It seems to be the easiest kit to put together that I know of and should price out around $1k or less. Another good kit supplier is Jim Chambers. He has a good variety of rifles to choose from but the skill level needed may be too high for you. Another path for you could be to check out the Classified forum and if nothing there is to your liking, just post a Want Ad with the price prange you are willing to pay. Good luck!

[moleeyes36]

Build or buy, you should first spend some time looking at and handling (and shooting if you can) as many different styles of rifles as you can.  Make sure you find a style that you find comfortable to shoot and fits you well.   Some prefer rifles that are nose heavy to some degree, some like light slim barrels, some like a lot of drop in the stock, some like cast-off, etc.  There are a lot of variables to consider because once you plunk down the money to either have one built or to gather the parts and tools to build one yourself, you want to be really sure you'll end up with a rifle that is just what you want.

Mole Eyes

[bob in the woods]

My questions are- what style of rifle do you want ?   And...what do you intend to use it for ?     If a Kibler kit will take care of your wants, go with it.  If a Chambers kit is more to your liking , then that's fine to.  A good kit is going to be in those price ranges. You can use the rest of your money to perhaps have a builder complete the gun for you. Mike Brook's website has photos of some of the kits he has built for folks. Other builders do the same.

[Mike Brooks]

I you're in this for one gun I'd have somebody build it. If you're considering a gun building hobby than you might consider doing your own, of course it will be years and quite a few guns before you're satisfied with your work. I think a happy medium would be one of Kibler's kits. There really isn't much to do but finish and you end up with a nice gun for 1K.

[Joe S.]

Hmmmmm.pondered this very subject,a few years back.So your at that point build or buy,me I chose to build.My situation may be a little different having a background in using the tools to get the job done but never used them to build a rifle however.I didn't have a shop,just the basic hand tools,bought the others that where needed,decent chisels ect.Had about the same money to spend,not sure what your after but as was said your probably short to have one built.Taylor makes a great point about the drive needed to build a rifle.Yours will even have to be more because of your situation,lack of a shop does put you at a big disadvantage.I am always looking for places to put my portable vise,deck,kitchen table,desk ect.better have an understanding better half or your doomed.It can be done,patience is your best tool,doing your homework,study the how to and ask plenty of questions,these fine folks been there and done that.When I started my project I knew it would be a long one,working on it here and there,I'm good with that,are you?don't rush things.The kibler kit sounds like your best choice but if yournot into that type of rifle you will have to find something else and it will require more work.I had always known I would build one but many paths had to be walked before I finally arrived,should have did it a long time ago.Welcome and enjoy which ever path you choose,there is something to be said for building one of these things with your own two hands.

[Woodsrunner79]

My guts tell me that this Is a one and done kind of deal for me. I KNOW I'm ready to move up from my hawken but don't know where to turn. My needs are simple. 1750-1770 era fowler or rifle. Minimum .45 cal. (VT rules,not mine) as to school, I haven't seen a one I didn't like. Though I must admit I'm not overly partial to the SMRs and poor boys.

[sqrldog]

If you're only interested in one rifle get with a knowledgeable builder and discuss rifles including styles and calibers to do what you desire to do be it plinking or hunting. Based on you comment VT minimum I assume you plan to hunt with it. Consider the game you plan to hunt. A fifty cal. will get you somewhat situated for deer. However, if bear and'or larger game animals will be hunted I wdoul opt for a larger caliber.  Your call there.  It is doable in a plain rifle for around your budget but bells and whistles will cost more. Pick your builder and then hold some of his work to look at. Pictures can be deceiving.  Mike Brooks said it best

[PPatch]

My guts tell me that this Is a one and done kind of deal for me. I KNOW I'm ready to move up from my hawken but don't know where to turn. My needs are simple. 1750-1770 era fowler or rifle. Minimum .45 cal. (VT rules,not mine) as to school, I haven't seen a one I didn't like. Though I must admit I'm not overly partial to the SMRs and poor boys.

1750-1770... well that knocks out the Kibler SMR kit in .45 caliber - pretty easy kit to build though, I would give it a good looking at. His SMR is a copy of a circa 1810 NC rifle. If you have no hand tools or woodworking experience then I believe purchasing a gun is your real option.

dave

[3 swans]

Hang in there, Jim Kibler is coming out with a pre-rev war rifle kit in the near future. In talking to a very well know builder, Kibler is changing how the average guy gets a very good rifle for a low price and not much work in finishing it and it can be decorated up very nicely by themselves or someone else.

[EC121]

To get started you will need a bench and some sort of vise.  Several files and other hand tools.  A drill press is nice and a small tap and die set.  I built my first rifle with one of those things that you clamp a hand drill in for a drill press.  Actually most drill work can be done with a hand drill.  Better to shop around for a used rifle that fits you.  You'll get more bang for your buck that way.  That will give you one to shoot and then later, armed with a little more knowledge, you can gather parts or a kit for one to build.  Waiting on Kibler's new rev war model is also a good option if it fits you.

[Mauser06]

If you think building one is a "one and done" deal for you, forget it and buy one. 


No sense in buying a vice, chisles and rasps and files etc etc to build 1 gun. 


Watch the for sale forum.... you'll very likely find something well built made with quality parts in your price range. 

[Woodsrunner79]

I am anxiously waiting to see what comes off the kibler line next. If it's what I'm looking for then buy all means I'd buy and put one together myself.

[bob in the woods]

My memory fails me, however there is a well known gentleman who has a grand assortment of long rifle styles available, and he offers them" in the white" i.e. completed, but not finished. That might be an option for you. I'm sure someone else here can supply his name and contact info

[thimble rig]

You could call Tip Curtis.I don't have his number.Someone on hear mjght have it.Tell him what youre looking for he might be able to help you out.He might even have one in the white.All you would have to do is finish it.Check out the for sale section .

[bob in the woods]

Tip Curtis...that's the name I couldn't remember .  Thanks thimble rig !    Tip has got an awesome selection of  stock styles, both long rifles and smoothbores.  His prices for in the white guns are more than reasonable.

[gunlock]

If you are not completely invested, and insanely excited about building yourself a rifle, don't do it.  Many of us have a shop full of tools that we have accumulated over a lifetime, and are still buying chisels and files.  Unless you are driven, your project is likely doomed.  If shooting the rifle is your goal, rather than the build itself, then buy one and fly at it.
The true artisan who actually lives for the satisfaction of creating something with his own hands, and is not satisfied unless he is continuously doing that, is in my case at least, least interested in actually shooting the rifle.  This may be because I have a stable full of my rifles and can't remember what it was like at the beginning.  Not quite true - I remember it vividly.  I started out with an inexpensive T/C "Hawken" and soon found I wanted more and better, so did my research, bought the NECESSARY tools, and put steel to wood.  But I'm one of those that has to be continuously creating, or my day is not fulfilled.   You alone know your own mind.

Total agreement with D. Taylor Sapergia here. I built my first gun in 1972 from the remains of one of those cheap Spanish two pieces stock 'Kentucky Rifles'. Currently I have 27 hand made rifles, muskets, fowlers, trade guns, 'parts' guns and a few pistols in the closet under the stairs. Only 7 have ever been fired. 2 I re-enact with and 2 others I occasionally hunt with. Several have never even had a flint snapped against the frizzen to check for spark. My current project has consumed 2 years of my shop time, truly a labor of love!!

My wife just shakes her head when I bring in a new gun to put in the 'armory' as she calls it. Point is I LOVE to build, it is almost like a addiction LOL.

[Woodsrunner79]

See, I think that's where I differ. I love hunting with my Muzzleloader, $#*! just being out in the woods and seeing nothing all day is great. I'll try and track down the number for Mr. Curtis, unless someone here has it. Thank you for all the nice feedback by the way.

[sz]

Lots of good advice here, but the final decision still has to be your own.
If you decide to buy, please contact me.  I had a friend who was an avid muzzleloader and buckskinner.  Many here may have known him. Dave Williams of Riverton Wyoming. 

He passed on last year.  His son and daughter have asked me to help sell his guns. He had over 200, all of which he made over the last 40 years.  Everything from 6 foot 5" tall long rifle, to planes rifles to Brown Bess's and nice fowlers.  Most are flintlocks but several are caplocks.
I also have several locks he had made from parts from the rifle Shop and never got around to using.
If you want to see them let me know and I'll send you pictures.
 I make nothing.  I will simply give you the phone number of the Daughter and son, and get out of the way. No money will be sent to me.

If anyone here reading this wants to see what he left behind, please PM me and I'll show you as well as i can, and put you in touch.

[Woodsrunner79]

Thank you SZ. I'll be sure to reach out to you as well as a few others when the time comes. Curiosity, though, has anyone been to Tip Curtis shop in the last month or so. I couldn't find him on the web. So either he's closed or old school.

[Mauser06]

Tip doesn't have a website.   A search of his name and "Flintlock" or "muzzleloader" should pull up his contact info

[JKL]

Try this:
http://nmlra.org/awpcp/show-ad/12/tip-curtis-frontier-shop/cross-plains-tn-37049/barrels/

[thimble rig]

Youre very welcome Bob.Woodsrunner if you live close by Lexington KY the Contempary long Rifle Assocation is having their show next weekend I think.There will be lots of guns and builders there.Also if you live close to Friendship IN the national shoot is next month.But you need to go on the first weekend because a lot of the vendors leave mon or Tues.