Single set, single trigger

[oldtravler61]

  Recently I purchased a flint rifle with this trigger set up. Push the trigger forward. Then click the gun. Half or full dock. Work's great nice clean trigger pull.
  But the lock will not dock unless trigger is set. Personally I like it.
 Curious what other's thank of this set up. Thanks.  Oldtravler

[Mike Brooks]

I think I'd want my lock to cock with out having to set the trigger first. Probably needs tinkered with to work properly.

[n stephenson]

OT61 , Like Mike said , probably can be adjusted. Does it have an adjustment screw under the main trigger spring ? if so , work with it , and the main spring. If not, then work with the screw that mounts the mainspring. It sounds like it is going too far ,instead of just slapping the sear. Without actually looking at it this is all guessing on my part , but should be good starting points.   Nate

[L. Akers]

Probably needs tinkered with to work properly.

I postulate the trigger is working properly for its design.  Any commercial single-action, single-set  trigger made in at least the last 50 years has to be set before the lock can be cocked and it cannot be otherwise "adjusted". If the trigger does not jump away from your finger when fired, it is probably a Walter Cain trigger which was one of the better single set triggers made.  A custom, bench-made, one-off single-action or a double-action, single-set trigger (L&R, Davis) would allow the lock to be cocked with the trigger un-set.

[n stephenson]

I didn't read that it was single set , but, it still may have some adjusting .

[oldtravler61]

  Ok my brain,fingers whatever.
It is a Walter Cain trigger. My pulled it apart.(Who knows far more than me..!) Advised me that it is a W.C. trigger.
  Sure wished I would have known. Before I asked. NOW he wants to buy it.. This is only the second one I have seen. But thanks guy's much appreciated as always.
  Will have it at the CLA show. Nothing fancy just a fine shooting gun...! Thanks. again...!  Oldtravler

[Bob Roller]

  Recently I purchased a flint rifle with this trigger set up. Push the trigger forward. Then click the gun. Half or full dock. Work's great nice clean trigger pull.
  But the lock will not dock unless trigger is set. Personally I like it.
 Curious what other's thank of this set up. Thanks.  Oldtravler

Any trigger that must be set before the lock can be cocked is a bad idea.
The trigger could release while the lock is being cocked and when the
cock or hammer is released,KABOOM because of a compressed sear.
No range officer will allow a rifle on the line if he knows the trigger must
be set before the lock will stay cocked.

Bob Roller

[oldtravler61]

  Bob thanks for the advice. Will modify right quick. With a different trigger. Oldtravler

[L. Akers]

[No range officer will allow a rifle on the line if he knows the trigger must
be set before the lock will stay cocked.

Bob Roller

I hate to contradict Mr. Roller, but there is nothing in the NMLRA rules that forbids the use of a set-before-cock trigger.  NMLRA rules only state that "a trigger must be of the pull-to-release type" (Rule 1240).  This rule applies to all firearms and is  the only rule that addresses triggers.

I know for a fact that many, many pistol shooters (including me) use a set-before-cock trigger.

[acorn20]

A Walter Cain lock or single-set trigger are two of the finest components you could have on a flintlock rifle.  I noticed up at Dixon's that Rice Barrels are now making an exact copy of Cain triggers.  They might even be a touch nicer in that there is no play in the trigger as demonstrated by Jason.

[oldtravler61]

 Well after shooting the rifle with this trigger. I am going to leave it as is. It's crisp an clean, with no slack. I really like it. Will have it at the CLA show.  Thanks everyone..!  Oldtravler

[Dphariss]

  Recently I purchased a flint rifle with this trigger set up. Push the trigger forward. Then click the gun. Half or full dock. Work's great nice clean trigger pull.
  But the lock will not dock unless trigger is set. Personally I like it.
 Curious what other's thank of this set up. Thanks.  Oldtravler

This means the lock/triggers need work. It's not safe IMO.

Dan

[Dphariss]

[No range officer will allow a rifle on the line if he knows the trigger must
be set before the lock will stay cocked.

Bob Roller

I hate to contradict Mr. Roller, but there is nothing in the NMLRA rules that forbids the use of a set-before-cock trigger.  NMLRA rules only state that "a trigger must be of the pull-to-release type" (Rule 1240).  This rule applies to all firearms and is  the only rule that addresses triggers.

I know for a fact that many, many pistol shooters (including me) use a set-before-cock trigger.

The NMLRA is not who gets sued. I consider any set trigger unsafe that will not allow the lock to be cocked with full sear engagement with the trigger unset.


Dan

[sqrldog]

I have seen several original southern rifles with single set triggers ( blade only on rear trigger) that required setting before the lock could be cocked. Dru Hedgecock and others made a single set trigger that in most applications required setting the trigger before the cock would stand at half or full cock. Tim

[bones92]

Why is it assumed that having to set the trigger before the lock will cock is any less safe than any other single trigger?    It seems to me that setting the trigger forward is just a precursor to enabling the trigger to hold the sear.  Now if it is a REEALLY light single trigger, then I could see a potential issue.  But just because the trigger must be set forward before the lock will cock does not necessarily mean it's any less safe than any other single trigger assembly.

[Mike Brooks]

I have seen several original southern rifles with single set triggers ( blade only on rear trigger) that required setting before the lock could be cocked. Dru Hedgecock and others made a single set trigger that in most applications required setting the trigger before the cock would stand at half or full cock. Tim

I used this style of trigger  (two triggers , one blade , only on the rear trigger)on my own squirrel rifle and got it set up so you can cock the lock with out the trigger set. Of course I'm probably some sort of mechanical genius ......OR NOT! I vaguely recall in the very distant past somebody wanting me to put a single set trigger gizmo with only one trigger. I couldn't figure out how to get the job accomplished properly so I put the kybosh on that idea and just put in  a simple  single trigger hung in the wood set up real light.

[oldtravler61]

Just as a heads up on this. When the trigger was set an the hammer cocked. The hammer would NOT move forward to fire. It was a solid set up. After setting the trigger. Brought it to half cock still rock solid.  Moved to full cock an still solid set up.
  Mr.Cain knew how to make a trigger.
  Gun was sold at the CLA show. Oldtravler

[Bob Roller]

I have seen several original southern rifles with single set triggers ( blade only on rear trigger) that required setting before the lock could be cocked. Dru Hedgecock and others made a single set trigger that in most applications required setting the trigger before the cock would stand at half or full cock. Tim

You have just described a single bar double set trigger that MUST be set to work at all.
A single set trigger is another system that if installed properly will fire set or unset and
the lock can be cocked over it when unset.It will also fire the lock by simply pulling it
until the sear is engaged. Set triggers with two release cars are sometimes called a
double lever set trigger that can fire set or unset. I have made a LOT of these but
in recent years have made only ONE that must be set to work.

Bob Roller

[sqrldog]

Bob
Thanks for explaining to me what I was talking about I thought I explained that in my post. I know that this post is about a single set trigger I was merely pointing out that some guns did require their trigger to be set before they could be cocked.  As a matter of interest it was my Walt Cain set trigger Jason and company used to pattern their trigger. I am in agreement that a good single set that has the ability to also act as a single trigger is the best option. Not all are designed this way I have three one a pistol set trigger that will not work unset. Tim

[Mike Brooks]

Bob
Thanks for explaining to me what I was talking about I thought I explained that in my post. I know that this post is about a single set trigger I was merely pointing out that some guns did require their trigger to be set before they could be cocked.  As a matter of interest it was my Walt Cain set trigger Jason and company used to pattern their trigger. I am in agreement that a good single set that has the ability to also act as a single trigger is the best option. Not all are designed this way I have three one a pistol set trigger that will not work unset. Tim

Another interesting feature on some later guns (percussion) is the absence of a 1/2 cock notch on the tumbler...you're either cocked or your not. I suppose you could use set triggers then and not have to mess with putting a fly in the lock. 

Kind of went into the weeds on subject matter.

[Bob Roller]

A single set trigger is exactly that ONE trigger with a mechanical capability allowing it
to be made into another thing that requires only a touch to set it off.
DOUBLE set triggers are exactly that. TWO triggers,usually in tandem that can be used
as a light touch trigger by locking the front and rear triggers together or as a conventional
trigger whose use is determined by the lock and the position of the triggers when the gun
is built.The 'must be set"double set trigger is the simplest form of mechanical trigger and
takes as much work to install as the better two lever types.
I have wondered about so many old,low quality rifles with  set triggers and
none of them had the sights to take advantage of such a trigger.Since 2001 I have made four muzzle loading rifles.
NONE of them had a set trigger and didn't need them.Adjust the lock with proper spring tension and sear
engagement and then shoot it.The .451 Whitworth/Henry match rifle I have mentioned here was the most
accurate black powder rifle I ever had.No set trigger but a superbly made Brazier four screw lock.
The sear installation on these upper grade locks is well thought out.Precise fitting and alignment of the
large and small tumbler bearings and a sear pivoting on a precisely fitted pin will allow a full cock
engagement,supplemented by a flexible sear spring does the job.
One man's opinion but based on experience.

Bob Roller

[Marcruger]

"One man's opinion but based on experience." 

And experience you have Bob.  I always read your posts entirely, and I often learn a lot. 

Many thanks for sharing with us. 

God Bless,   Marc

[Bob Roller]

"One man's opinion but based on experience." 

And experience you have Bob.  I always read your posts entirely, and I often learn a lot. 

Many thanks for sharing with us. 

God Bless,   Marc

A now deceased friend,when shown a single set trigger I made sat in
his wheel chairs and clicked it for about five minutes and called it a
fascinating study in "controlled instability". Not a bad description.
Thank you,Marc for the kind remarks about my various rants.

Bob Roller

[oldtravler61]

  Bob as always good advice from a man with incredible talent.
All my hunting guns have single triggers that I make. No creep, no slop an no wiggle.
 They are also set at 2# press. Notice I didn't say pull.
 Set triggers are nice for target shooting but for hunting I want a single trigger.
  It's just what I prefer. Has worked fine for fifty some year's. Other's may choose to different an that's your choice. Oldtravler

[Bob Roller]

Old Traveler,
I full agree with a hunting rifle have only a single trigger.
To me,the ideal muzzle loading hunting rifle in a flintlock
would be an English half stock of Manton style and in a
caplock,a 2 band Enfield and both in 58 caliber and one
trigger.
Also thanks for your remark about my shop skills.They came
by hard work and studying the work of better craftsmen than I.
Bob Roller