Antique DBL BBL shotgun with "Jas Golcher" on the locks and "HL" on the barrel

[Colidespell]

Hi,

I have posted some pictures of a double barrel 12 gauge << correction: 20 gauge >> percussion shotgun. I do not own it as it still hangs in a local gun shop. I asked to take pictures because I'm considering buying it.

The locks are crisp and seem in excellent working condition. The hammers are identical. The inscription on both locks are, "Jas Golcher" with "Warranted Forged". There is a duck hunting scene etched into each lock.

On the bottom side of the barrels are the initials "HL". The barrels have a beautiful age patina that looks almost like Damascus. The rearward 8 inches or so are Hexagonal in shape, and forward of that, a rounded band then the barrels are round.

I have read a lot about the "Golcher" name, but the "HL" is curious to me and the main reason for my post.

Does anyone have any idea of who "HL" might have been as a barrel or gun maker in the mid to late 1800s? Thank you for any assistance identifying "HL".

[Hlbly]

Henry Leman is a possibility for the HL.

[Colidespell]

Thank you. Any idea at all as to value, or where I can find such information?

[Hlbly]

It's worth what you are willing to pay.

[Colidespell]

I used to think that way too. Everything carries a value, and then there's 'worth'. You're talking about 'worth', which is personal and subjective and varies from person to person. I may modify my opinion of what I think it's worth if I know its actual appraised value and what information that value is based on. Not being a professional firearms appraiser I rely on others that may have knowledge of these things -- hence why I'm here.

[Hlbly]

Maybe I should have said it is worth to you what you are willing to pay. The only firearms appraisal that is worth a flying flip is the one made by the man that will pull out his wallet and pay it.

[PPatch]

First; welcome to ALR Colidespell. 

Second; folks on here are normally adverse to assigning $$ values to firearms posted, especially from just pictures. Third; I'd venture (guess) in the neighborhood of $250-300 for the gun you posted. That value comes with a lot of if's since I have not actually seen it or handled it, nor, apparently, does it come with a known provenance. It is a non shooter btw.

dave

[Colidespell]

Thank you. Don't want a gun I can't shoot. It seems viable though.

[PPatch]

Thank you. Don't want a gun I can't shoot. It seems viable though.

What area of Georgia are you in? Northwest here, near Rome. "viable," in what sense?

dave

[Colidespell]

I'm a little Southeast of you. Viable in that I believe the gun is sound enough structurally to be shot with modest loads just for the fun of shooting, not actual hunting. So, I'd pour maybe 40 grains of FF wads and 40 grains of bird or buck shot maximum load, and shoot a bottle of red or green soda like that guy on Youtube.

[Mike Brooks]

That has the weirdest architecture I have ever seen on a SXS, curved buttstock is odd. Very unusual trigger guard. What's the buttplate finial look like? Why all the pics with the barrels removed? If the barrels "look" Damascus they probably are.
 
Also, If it looks so shaky that you're afraid to put more that 40 grains in it I'd not shoot it.

[rich pierce]

The guard is unusual for a double barrel percussion gun. That makes it interesting.

[Colidespell]

Mike Brooks,

I didn't describe it as looking shaky. Out of respect for the fact it's antique, I'd not want to test its maximum capacity. For target shooting, plinking, or just general tomfoolery, 40 grains of FF is plenty of boom for me. I'll get a picture of the full thing and post it next weekend. The buttplate is brass and its finial runs along the top of the buttstock. It has some modest ingraving. 

I attached the finial on the bottom of the foreend if I can call it that. I'm afraid I don't know what SXS is. Anyway.... I did not post these since they came out too blurry but here you go...

[Mike Brooks]

SXS= side by side, a common abbreviation. I have never owned a gun that was in "shootable condition"  I couldn't shoot a standard load. By chance does it appear the trigger guard is a replacement?

[Colidespell]

Good question about the trigger guard. While I did not pay particular attention to the trigger guard, I'd say no, it does not look like a replacement as I would noticed gaps in the mortice. Since I'm keenly interested in this shotgun, I'll revisit it next weekend and get some more detailed pictures of it, finials and all. I sincerely appreciate everyone's interest and feedback, it's very educational for me. 

[Mike Brooks]

I'd like to see the top of the buttplate if you get to take pictures again.

[Colidespell]

I will Mike. Stay tuned. I tend to do what I say.

[rich pierce]

I'm guessing it's a period restock or parts gun.  There wasn't much use for small shops to make side by side doubles since they were readily available in standard form as imported guns or made back east and stamped with whatever the mercantile selling them wanted.

[Brent English]

I think when someone asks "what's it worth" it's OK to give the guy a range based on the current market, and not just a generic "whatever somebody is willing to pay for it".  I don't mind paying good money for a good gun, but I don't want to be overexposed on it either.  I think that's what the original poster was after, and it's better to ask than be disappointed after the purchase.

I think the $250-300 range another poster mentioned is fair, but $200-250 is where I'd want to be.  It's a generic back action shotgun, hardware store quality, that may be a restock.  Not particularly valuable or collectible.  Agree it really needs to be checked out if you want to shoot it. I call these "Cracker Barrel Guns".  You see them over the fireplace in Cracker Barrel restaurants.  Fun to look at, but don't buy it as an investment and be cautious about shooting it.

[Hungry Horse]

 Guns by Henry Leman were very often marked HEL on the left rear of the barrel. I have not seen a Leman attributed gun marked HL.
 I agree this looks like a period restock. It is the first rifle stocked double barreled shotgun I have seen.

  Hungry Horse

[Colidespell]

Thanks everyone for your input. Brent English is right in that it's okay to throw a figure or range out there. I realize fully that we're all looking at pictures and not holding it in our hands. Unless we can see it and touch it in person, it's hard to say is it a period restock. I disagree it's a rifle stock, but that's not important to me either. I go for authenticity when considering investment. I go for aesthetics and reasonable $$ when looking for a period shooter. I have posted three more pictures. Someone on this thread wanted to see the finial on the brass butt plate and the full shotgun put together. Here you go. I welcome comments good or bad. That's the gun store owner in the last picture, not me.

[rich pierce]

To me it's a pretty cool gun.  Being a restock with a unique guard makes it much more interesting than the run of the mill double.

[Colidespell]

This has been very educational. I have enjoyed and learned from all the feedback. After having looked at hundreds of pictures of percussion DBL BBL shotguns on the 'net, I'd like to share my 2 cents worth of speculation, and I may amend this entry after I visit the shotgun again today, so here goes...

I believe the shotgun to be in its original form - unconventional as it may be. I see that the guard is rifle as the space inside the trigger area seems cramped. And of all the pictures I've observed of DBL BBL percussion shotguns, none have this curved stock. However, this gun's stock has a thick, flat butt - typical for shotguns. I believe the maker was a rifle maker. And all he had in his shop were stocks and parts for rifles. I think one day he got a wild hair up his nose and decided he wanted to go pheasant, or duck hunting and made himself or a family member this shotgun. Or, one of his customers asked for a custom 'rifle stock' shotgun << which is within the realm possibility.

I'm going to visit the gun again today and have a closer look at the guard area and scrutinize the mortice to attempt to confirm whether the guard is original to the gun. I'll let you know what I think honestly as I have no prejudice one way or the other with this gun.

[Mike Brooks]

Who ever built it in it's present state knew what they were doing. I'd have to have a look down those bores before I bought it.

My wild guess....the barrels are Belgian, the locks are imports that were bought somewhere here in America, The buttplate looks to be 1790-ish English, The trigger guard is American. The wood should  be black walnut, but strangely appears to be European walnut, at least from the pics, hard to tell which it is I believe it was  stocked up by a professional gun maker from parts of several guns into a very useable fowling piece.

[Colidespell]

Thanks, Mike, I appreciate your feedback and perspective.

Like I said, I'm back from visiting this percussion shotgun - ( I use a laptop not a hand held device ) and I've determined with the help of other more knowledgable customers there that the guard is original to the gun, albeit a rifle guard, but deliberately made that way. Another thought is -- that since this 20-ish gauge has a sloped rifle stock and shotgun butt -- it may have been a custom make for a female. Even though the trigger guard volume is cramped, the triggers do not collide with the guard when in use. To me, this indicates the gun was possibly ( I'm speculating again ) made for a female with slender fingers. The sloped rifle stock facilitates a quick sight-picture acquirement. I see no remnants of a rear sight. Other customers in the shop at the time feel there is no evidence to suggest anything was replaced. Mortices are tight and cut for the appointments affixed to the gun. The stock is walnut.

I know you're all wanting to know -- I made an offer of what I feel the gun is worth to me -- not what was being asked -- and will purchase it. 

Thank you all and have a great weekend.