Running Deer rifle

[rich pierce]

Here are photos Mel Hankla posted on the CLA Facebook site in January. I believe Reeves Goehring may have the buttplate and guard castings. I seem to recall discussing this gun with him or somebody who thought it could have Reading Pennsylvania connections. The other rifle that comes to mind for me is the rifle Tom Curran (Acer) calls Doc's rifle which is very plain.

Mike Brooks this ones for you
















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[WElliott]

I have always admired this great rifle.

[Elnathan]

Thanks for putting these up. I've only ever seen one picture of this rifle prior to this and I don't do the facebook thing, so I missed these.

Very interesting old gun. Approximate date?

[Mike Brooks]

This gun looks like it belongs with brass barrel rifle and its other associated rifle. Looks like they might have been built by the same hand. Anybody have any info on the origin?

[rich pierce]

As mentioned above the architecture and sideplate remind me of an original plain rifle Acer built as a bench copy. He calls the original "Doc's rifle" as that's the owner (Doc).  You can see Acer's bench copy on this page but have to scroll down a ways to the wooden box rifle.

https://flintrifles.wordpress.com/

I'd guess the Running Deer rifle to be post Revolutionary War and Doc's rifle to have been made during the war itself and for that purpose.

Both have some similarities to the BBR.

[dogbest]

Very impressive rifle.
Thanks for posting the pictures.

[Elnathan]

Both have some similarities to the BBR.

Not really seeing any similarities between those and the BBR, apart from the carving behind the cheekpiece. What are y'all looking at?

[rich pierce]

Both have some similarities to the BBR.

Not really seeing any similarities between those and the BBR, apart from the carving behind the cheekpiece. What are y'all looking at?

Running Deer and BBR: The cheekpiece seems similar to me.  Or both the cheekpiece is, face on, a prominent rectangle, fluted, with the rear taper or transition directly toward the buttplate versus curving upward toward the heel. There are major differences. BBR has a stepped wrist.

Doc's and Running Deer:  mostly the flow from rear of cheekpiece. I see Doc's as swiftly and expertly shaped with a spokeshave, scraped, and finished without niceties and the flow from the rear of the cheekpiece stands out to me. 

OTOH I've had many an instance where I think I see something and others go "huh?"

[Mike Brooks]

Both have some similarities to the BBR.

Not really seeing any similarities between those and the BBR, apart from the carving behind the cheekpiece. What are y'all looking at?

Running Deer and BBR: The cheekpiece seems similar to me.  Or both the cheekpiece is, face on, a prominent rectangle, fluted, with the rear taper or transition directly toward the buttplate versus curving upward toward the heel. There are major differences. BBR has a stepped wrist.

Doc's and Running Deer:  mostly the flow from rear of cheekpiece. I see Doc's as swiftly and expertly shaped with a spokeshave, scraped, and finished without niceties and the flow from the rear of the cheekpiece stands out to me. 

OTOH I've had many an instance where I think I see something and others go "huh?"

What he said.

Definitely a "feel" sort of thing as well.

[David R. Pennington]

Are these going in the gallery I hope?

[Mike Brooks]

Thanks for posting Rich, much appreciated. Do you recall  how long the barrel is?

[rich pierce]

No data unfortunately, Mike. Will see what I can dig up.

[VP]

Gentleman

If you would like eleven high quality photos with some measurements of this "Running Deer" rifle all you need to do is order the 2012 KRA President's display CD from our website. We photographed and measured this rifle for the CD. For the twenty dollars plus postage you spend you will get this rifle plus nineteen other great rifles. This CD has the twenty "Best of Show" rifles that brought together for the KRA's 50th Anniversary celebration in 2012. You can order the CD from our webpage:http://kentuckyriflefoundation.org/krf-store/

VP

[Joe Schell]

The carving reminds me of rifle #29 in Ivey's North Carolina book

[alex e.]

Is it me? Or does the patchbox seem a a little less refined/crude? It looks like it was done by a lesser skilled hand.
There's just something about it that seems different than rest of the work on the gun.

[n stephenson]

This  rifle makes me feel better about the Browning Buck cheek inlay I put on my last rifle. Just kidding, !!! don`t have me taken outside the city gates and stoned.   That is a cool rifle  in a funky kind of way. Thanks for posting.   Nate

[rich pierce]

Is it me? Or does the patchbox seem a a little less refined/crude? It looks like it was done by a lesser skilled hand.
There's just something about it that seems different than rest of the work on the gun.

Alex, yes.  But ya never know.  I'd like to see some wire inlay in a surround even if the guy was no engraver.

[Mike Brooks]

Gentleman

If you would like eleven high quality photos with some measurements of this "Running Deer" rifle all you need to do is order the 2012 KRA President's display CD from our website. We photographed and measured this rifle for the CD. For the twenty dollars plus postage you spend you will get this rifle plus nineteen other great rifles. This CD has the twenty "Best of Show" rifles that brought together for the KRA's 50th Anniversary celebration in 2012. You can order the CD from our webpage:http://kentuckyriflefoundation.org/krf-store/

VP

Thanks!
 That just cost me a bunch of dough......

[Hungry Horse]

Could this brass patchbox be a new brass cover for an existing opening for a wooden patchbox. I find it interesting that the side panels look like they are tacked or nailed at the butt, and possibly simply tucked under at the other end. Without seeing the lock side, and an overall side view, I have more questions than answers. The carving, and the cheek piece, look quite early to me. I think this may have been made before the war.

  Hungry Horse

[rich pierce]

HH, if the patchbox was a later addition I'd date the rifle earlier also.  Was thinking that's a post-Revolutionary War patchbox.  Also it's just tough estimating when early rifles were made.  The Oerter rifles dated to the Revolutionary War period are so robust and yet some others that can be dated to the same timeframe, seem sleeker.

[Hungry Horse]

 The carving, cheekpiece, and inlays, are more of folk art design, than that of any formal school. I definitely wouldn't rule out Oerter or one of his students. The elongated lock panel, and side plate panel, make me think this gun was built in the South. Barrel length, and contour, might give us another clue.

  Hungry Horse

[Eric Kettenburg]

Until another by obviously the same hand turns up, this one is going to be a stumper.  It's become somewhat popular to attribute any piece with a hint of a 'roman nose' to the Reading area, but honestly I couldn't tell you where this one originated.  We can try to pick it apart and find connections to this or to that, but thus far it's all a fair stretch.  I do have to say - for myself only - I find it closer in 'feel' to the BBR and the companion piece (the one everyone forgets about, same guy as BBR) than pretty much anything else.  But on the other hand, there are enough differences in execution and design to render a pretty strong thought that all three are not by the same man.

I'm not 100% but I do not believe there is any evidence of a wood box under this box.

Also I kind of like to compare/contrast this one with the Faber rifle as well.  Just a random thought.

[n stephenson]

Is there any "patch" or other repair on the butt plate where a sliding box would be?  Just a thought .