Uberti Hawken with 1979 mexican coin inlay Pics added today 2-23-18

[mountainman70]

Hi y'all;  I recently obtained a very nice Uberti Santa Fe Hawken,ca 1979 with a Mexican coin inlayed into stock near buttplate,lock side. I vaguely remember seeing an ad for these in some mag back in the day. Just wondering if any of you have any knowledge/experience with this one. The fit and finish are very good,I don't think it is a kit build,but who knows. I bought it to compare  with the Ithaca and it is very interesting to say the least.
As always, I appreciate your help. Have a great day, Dave 

Here are  pics Ithaca Hawken shown for comparo. Parts are somewhat interchangeable.

[Don Stith]

Back in that time period I shot every weekend with all the ML clubs within an hour of St Louis. Don't remember anyone using a Uberti or there being any interest in them.  Must have been popular somewhere

[Hungry Horse]

 I think you will find the lack of popularity stems from the fact that even though the barrels are marked .54 cal., they are in fact .53 cal. Which require molding your own bullets. The molds for these have been hard to come by at times as well. They shoot very well with the right bullet, but are no fun without the right bullet mold.

  Hungry Horse

[mountainman70]

Just added new pics. This rifle is as issued? Tang and barrel have same numbers. Triggs too well fit and tight to bother. Thanks, Dave 

[Mtn Meek]

Back in that time period I shot every weekend with all the ML clubs within an hour of St Louis. Don't remember anyone using a Uberti or there being any interest in them.  Must have been popular somewhere

Don,

That's not surprising being the St. Louis area--home of the Hawken.  With the custom rifle builders in the area at that time and the fact that original Hawken rifles were on exhibit in museums that could be studied by anyone.  I'm sure there were private collections other than Art Ressel that contained original Hawken rifles, too.  There must have been a lot of amateur builders building good to descent Hawken rifles back then, also.

I think it was different in other parts of the country where access to original rifles was more limited and knowledgeable custom builders rare.  People were more dependent on production rifles, especially if they were on a tight budget.

The Uberti Hawken certainly had its shortcomings, but at least it was closer to the real thing than the Thompson Center.  It often sold for less than $300 (typical price was $250) which made it more affordable for many.

I think you will find the lack of popularity stems from the fact that even though the barrels are marked .54 cal., they are in fact .53 cal.
  Hungry Horse

As far as its popularity, Hungry Horse, not withstanding the problem with the caliber marking you pointed out, it was continually imported from 1978 to the mid-2000's.  Dixie Gun Works Catalog 153 from 2004 still listed it for sale.

I have an unassembled Uberti Hawken kit that is marked on the barrel “CIMARRON ARMS CO – HOUSTON, TX”, serial number 9481 and .50 cal.  The proof marks date code is AT, meaning it was proofed in 1988.  Being an import, both finished rifles and kits would have to be serial numbered and shared the same serial number range.  Given that these rifles continued to be imported into in the 2000’s, the total number of Uberti Hawken rifles imported by all companies is probably greater than 10,000.  It was imported and sold by Western Arms Corp, Allen Firearms, Cimarron Arms Co, Log Cabin Shop, Track of the Wolf, and other smaller retail merchants.

Uberti made and sold more of their Hawken rifles than Green River Rifle Works, Ozark Mountain Arms, Sharon Rifle Barrel Co, and Ithaca Gun Co combined.  So, I'm not sure how you are measuring popularity.

Dave, on the particular rifle you have posted, it looks like it has been reworked to me--like you did the Ithaca Hawken.  The "as issued" rifle had wider lock panels than the Ithaca Hawken and the forearm was slightly slab-sided.



The rifle you posted has slimmer lock panels and appears to have a more rounded forearm.  The inletting around the Mexican coin looks a little amateurish to me, suggesting that it was probably installed when the rifle was reworked.

[mountainman70]

Hi Phil, thanks for the info. The barrel and tang is numbered 3658, the date code is AE. Who ever built this one did a fine job.
I still believe I saw this one in the 1978/79 Buckskin report or Muzzleloader mag, they were the only ones I was getting at that time.
Whatever the history, it is still a cool ol Hawken from our mis spent youth !!
Have a goodun, Dave
Also, Phil, on your link to grrw,under competitors, halfway down Uberti page is a notice for Western Gun store saying it has the Mexican War  pre 1848 rifle, and the picture shows a medalion looking piece on the butt right where mine is. Also, on a thread from 2012 a guest mentions this gun as some he had seen. Gotta be more to it.Dave

[Dan Herda]

Mountainman 70, cant tell in the picture, does yours have a slant breech? Did you measure the bor yet? I picked one up a couple yrs ago and it is indeed .53 cal. but marked .54 and has a slant breech. I read someware that thise two things indicate first run rifles but havent been able prove that. Another  thing on mine is zero crown at the muzzle.

[mountainman70]

Howdie  yep, slant breech and 53 marked 54. I cant get a new 54 cleaning jag into it, use a 50 and 2 patches. It hasn't been shot much.
I been doing some comparo between the Ithaca,and a Cherry Corner lock with the Uberti, it is easy to see the lineage.
I gotta laugh---there is a  thread here   called Accidental Contemporary Hawken collection. Good read and pics. I have found myself in about the same situation, I now have 7 built Hawkens of various description, 2 under way,and 1 of Don Stiths fullstock parts kits.
If Jim Kibler ever does a Hawken like his other stuff, I will go broke, or have to sell my motorcycles.Heck, by the time that happens, I be too old to ride anyway. Have a goodun. Dave

[bigsmoke]

Ah yes, the Uberti Hawken Rifle, AKA Santa Fe Hawken.   Importers were in fact, Western Arms, Allen Firearms and Cimmaron Arms, plus others as listed.  Western Arms became Allen Firearms in a move to distance itself from Western Arms of California.  Then after Mr Allen passed away, it was acquired by Cimmaron Arms Co.  So, was that really three different companies or one company moving forward?

The rifle was a .53 caliber, but it would shoot a .530 round ball, especially if it were loaded with the aid of a hammer to get the PRB started.  It was amazingly accurate, especially considering the loading technique.  Things got markedly easier when Hornady introduced a .520 round ball to its lineup.

In the early 1980's I distributed the entire selection of the Western Arms/Allen Firearms lineup, and had fine luck selling them.  Are you aware that in addition to the half stock percussion rifle, they initially listed in their catalog a half stock flint rifle, a full stock percussion and a full stock flint lock?  To the best of my knowledge, those never went further than the drawing board.  The first rifle I brought into inventory was serial number 008, IIRC.  A fine rifle except they had failed to keep the browning solution out of the bore.  It looked about .22 caliber.  in retrospect, what I should have done rather than returning it was I should have had it bored to .58 caliber.  But, I didn't.

In the Bluebook of Black Powder Gun Values, 6th Edition, in 100% condition, they list a suggested value of $350.  I would think that the Mexican coin embedded in the stock does not really enhance the value.  Which is sad.

John

[Hungry Horse]

The first run of these rifles was a 1 in 1000 production run, and will say so on the barrel tang, and will be stamped with the serial number. I had one that shot so well, a friend nagged me into selling it to him. IMO the Mexican coin in the stock of the one shown will lower the price.

  Hungry Horse

[mountainman70]

I have been considering having the barrel redone to true 54 cal, and inletting a correct small cap box in place of the coin. Gotta wonder just what the idea of the coin was in the first place. Have a goodun, Dave

[Hungry Horse]

The barrels are good quality, and shoot well. The .53 caliber is as common in original guns by the Hawken brothers as is the .54, and even some .52 calibers are known. Antique coins that are worn, or altered on one side are often available for their value in coin silver at coin shops. Many coins were drilled for adornments and can be bought cheap. If you use the existing hole as a nail hole, and add another opposite it on the period coin it will look very authentic.

  Hungry Horse

[mountainman70]

Horse, the coin is counterbored into the stock,1/32 below surface. I really just want to sell it, too many already and time to thin the heard some.
My thought was ,being it is so much a pain to get 520 balls, have it redone to use 535 s or?
Thanks for all your inputs. Have a good evenin. Dave

[Lampro]

I have one of these. It's super accurate and seems to shoot well with a wide variety of loads. I would advise against doing anything to the barrel. From what I've heard these have a choked bore, mine feels like it does and I tend to believe that's why it likes a variety of loads. Track of the Wolf sells .520 and .526 balls. I've used both and both work well. I also have an old Lee .527 mold and it shoots good with those too.