Metal Working 101?

[Dwshotwell]

As I've worked through building my first rifle, it's come to my attention how much there is to learn about metal working that goes with rifle building. Prior to this project, I'd never so much as drilled a hole through a piece of metal. I've learned to do that, and tap threads, and I've gotten pretty handy with a file. However, there is a ton to learn. Annealing, tempering, learning to drill through metal without breaking into a sweat...

Google searches for beginning metalwork skills weren't particularly helpful.

Is there a good source for Metal Working 101 as it would apply to rifle building?

[Joe S.]

To be honest its all right here.Use the search function,your questions where probably asked(more than once)as was the fixes if it didn't go as planned.The fine folks here are also very patient with us first time builders asking those "done to death subjects"too.

[rich pierce]

A lot of builders come from a machinist background and take it for granted. We'd welcome a tutorial on drilling and tapping for example. Another on annealing, hardening and tempering steel. Soldering and brazing 101.

[Elnathan]

To add to what Rich has said, there is in general a dearth of written material on the basics of machining written for hobbyists. Woodworking, with hand tools or otherwise, is a fairly popular hobby and there is an abundance of material describing how to do various aspects of fine woodworking, from running a lathe to repairing handtools to finishing. I think the woodworking section in the main branch of the local library system covers about a dozen shelves - probably 150 volumes or more. There are also many books on blacksmithing, though it not nearly as well covered as woodworking.

There is very little material available on machine work, particularly with hand tools. Dubino's Gunsmithing with Simple Hand Tools has a good section on files, but not a whole lot else.

[Dwshotwell]

A lot of builders come from a machinist background and take it for granted. We'd welcome a tutorial on drilling and tapping for example. Another on annealing, hardening and tempering steel. Soldering and brazing 101.

This is exactly what I was getting at with my original question. I don't have that background. I know I can always post a specific question if I'm stuck during a build, but I'd really like to improve my general background knowledge because at this point I can't say that I know what is possible in order to even ask a question.

[oldtravler61]

  David have u tried U-tube? Their are a ton of useful video's on all aspects of gun building,metal work etc.
  Also as Joe said. The people on here are very willing to help. Plus check the archives section too!  Oldtravler

[Dale Halterman]

I have two old trade school textbooks on metalworking that I picked up for next to nothing at a flea market years ago. They have everything I will ever need with the possible exception of modern welding techniques.

You might try ebay or C-list for similar textbooks.

Dale H 

[P.W.Berkuta]

A lot of builders come from a machinist background and take it for granted. We'd welcome a tutorial on drilling and tapping for example. Another on annealing, hardening and tempering steel. Soldering and brazing 101.

This is exactly what I was getting at with my original question. I don't have that background. I know I can always post a specific question if I'm stuck during a build, but I'd really like to improve my general background knowledge because at this point I can't say that I know what is possible in order to even ask a question.

It is impossible to learn 40+ years of experience working with metals in a forum no matter how good you are . If you truly want to learn even the basics sign up for a trade school class to get you started in the RIGHT direction.  If you want to be a hobbyist then get some books and practice - trial & error works 

[PPatch]

Found this basic metal working video on YouTube. You may learn a few tricks watching, there are a series of "basic how to" in the series.



Search YouTube for "basic metal working" or "light metal fabrication."

dave

NOTE; Use of drill press section starts at: https://youtu.be/-4McYKCd2Hg?t=1235

[David R. Pennington]

Here you go.
Drilling metal 101
1. Iron or steel
  a. Test the metal with a file. If the file won't cut, it is hard and must be annealed before it can be drilled. To anneal heat to red and insulate in a bucket of wood ashes or vermiculite overnite to cool slowly.
 b. Accurately locate hole, mark with sharp scribe, prick punch and mark starting point with sharp center punch on pricked mark.
 c. Bit must be sharp. A fixture to sharpen bits is worth the investment if you don't have the skill to grind them free hand (Drill Doctor). An angle mark scribed on the grinder tool rest at the proper angle will help establish the proper point angle. The other angle (relief) can be set on the rest and locked in. I usually use a properly ground new bit to establish these angles.
The only part of the bit that cuts are the two small edges on the point. Once they are dulled the bit is useless, but they may be resharpened many times. keep bit cool while grinding to prevent overheating and destroying it's temper.
 d. Most bits are dulled because of overheating. The drill is run faster than the bit is being fed into the material. The friction from the bit spinning in the hole overheats the cutting edges and they are then immediately dulled. Most beginners run drill too fast with too little pressure applied. A sharp bit run at proper speed with adequate feed pressure will produce a continuos spiral of cuttings.
 e. Small amount of lubricant is recomended for drilling most ferrous metals (cutting oil).
 d. Most bits are broken from either over feeding or binding in hole.

I once watched a fellow ruin a whole pile of new drill bits trying to drill holes in a stainless counter. He spent all morning getting one hole drilled. His boss kept wanting to know why it wasn't done and he kept complaining the bits were no good. After he left again to buy more drill bits I found one he hadn't ruined yet and drilled all the remaining holes with the same bit in about five minutes.

[thimble rig]

Track sells some books on metal working.They are not very lengthy.Theres a set of them I think,I forget who wrote them.They are pretty good.As for trade schools;there is not many of those any more.Besides you would have to take out a second mortage on youre house to attend one.They don't even have shop classes in public schools any more.

[WadePatton]

Nothing says you're serious about metal like your own copy of Machinery's Handbook. I picked up one at a sale.  It's great "read to sleep" material and The Ultimate Reference for all metalworking needs. Lots of "prose" in there for the reading in between the tables and charts and numbers.

What I didn't get in my one year of "vocational" (Agriculture) classes in HS (changed schools-or I would have had 4), I picked up from mechanics and some metal guys along the way (off the streets) and just doing stuff. Always had a bent for it.

THESE days it is SO EASY to learn _any_ one particular thing using internet videos it's crazy. You cannot learn "feel" and "smell" and "feedback" by watching videos, but you can get nearly all the visual information you need to get started.  The very sad part is that you'll likely have to wade through piles and piles of stinking no good, highly commercialized, and garbage videos to get to the truly good ones.  So be ready for that.  I have regular reference gurus on YouTube in various fields of endeavor. One of them is a welder, but he's no machinist-I've not looked for anything in that realm (except for the time I was teaching myself CNC programming).

[David R. Pennington]

I am not sure the trade school classes will help now days. I have hired guys who had completed refrigeration trade school classes who learned basically nothing. None of them understood basic cycle of refrigeration and none could solder or flare a copper tube.
I asked one what they did teach and he admitted most of the class was required to be there in order to continue recieving their unemployment checks but weren't interested in learning anything and the instructor was happy to oblige them. He still got paid too.

[davec2]

Recently someone on this forum posted the following link.  I have been designing and building rocket engines using almost all of the most sophisticated metal working methods on the planet for the last almost 40 years..... and had a lifetime of metal and hand work opportunity before that.  None the less, in poking around on this fellows YouTube site I learned a few things I had never thought of or seen before.  While not specific to unbuilding, just hop around and watch several of this guys excellent videos and you can help but learn something....from hand making a file to layout to lathe work, milling, drilling, heat bluing, tool making, fixture building......just take a look.  Very well produced, clearly explained.  he best I've seen......

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCworsKCR-Sx6R6-BnIjS2MA

dave C

[L. Akers]

Look for copies of Home Shop Machinist and Machinist's Workshop magazines.  Lots of metalworking info and occasionally a muzzleloading article.

[rick/pa]

My first post here, mainly been lurking.  Hope this helps you.

The late Kit Ravenshear wrote a series of small handbooks on various aspects of gun building, some are  available through Track of the Wolf. I think these are the ones Thimblerig was referring to..Heres two, you can find more on the TOW website.........
 https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/303/2/BOOK-M-V1..........
.https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/303/1/BOOK-CP-V1

NMLRA also had a 4 volume series, Journal of Historical Armsmaking, available but I think they're out of print now. You can find some through Abebooks.com .............https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&an=&tn=journal+of+historical+armsmaking&kn=&isbn=

[PPatch]

"Is there a good source for Metal Working 101 as it would apply to rifle building?"

Lots of good rifle making, both wood and metal, info in our tutorials section David: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=473.0

dave

[rennikselum]

davec2, Thanks for the link, fantastic number of great informational videos! The Antikythera series is very interesting.

Jeff

[flehto]

I served a 5 yr state indentured tool and diemaker apprenticeship in a toolroom that included  120 toolmakers, machinists  and 10 apprentices  w/ a company that greatly valued tradesmen  who were highly skilled.  After the apprenticeship I worked in the toolroom for a number of yrs. Just some background.

The first step necessary to obtain an accurately located drilled hole in metal {wood is slightly different} is to have accurately located  intersecting scribed lines and a normal  center punch  w/ a sharp point. The center punch point is slid down the first scribed line and will be stopped by the cross groove of the 2nd scribed line...a tap w/ a hammer and a very  accurately placed dimple is the result.

A small drill  w/ a dia. that's larger than the web point of the final drill is located on the center punch, aligned to eliminate drill wobble and a hole that's at least as deep as the angled point of the finished drill is made. ....if the metal thickness is thin, a through hole can be made.  If the metal is brass, the final drill's point has the cutting edge rakes stoned or ground at a 90 degrees which eliminates grabbing.

Some use a center drill when picking up a center punched dimple w/hand held workpieces,  but we never did.....a center drill was only used when the workpiece was clamped down in a mill, lathe or radial drillpress. A small flexible drill will allow some leeway if the drill isn't quite aligned w/ the dimple......a  center drill will not., especially in wood.

Hands on is better than a necessary long winded post like this one, but that's all many have to properly drill a hole. Judging from many posts, many have a lot of anxiety when drilling holes and hopefully this might help some........Fred

[Joe S.]

Its more a case of drilling or working radiuses ect.Its one thing to drill a flat surface,its another to drill thru the tang,wrist into the trigger plate.I think for the first time builder its abit of a challenge and for someone who never used a drill...........granted drilling a hole is drilling a hole but the added challenge of proper layout and just how to do it,drill press, hand drill,jig adds to the pressure on the novice mind.Its one thing to read how to,watch a video how to and then do it yourself knowing you only get one shot to get it right.

[Bob Roller]

A lot of builders come from a machinist background and take it for granted. We'd welcome a tutorial on drilling and tapping for example. Another on annealing, hardening and tempering steel. Soldering and brazing 101.

This is exactly what I was getting at with my original question. I don't have that background. I know I can always post a specific question if I'm stuck during a build, but I'd really like to improve my general background knowledge because at this point I can't say that I know what is possible in order to even ask a question.

It is impossible to learn 40+ years of experience working with metals in a forum no matter how good you are . If you truly want to learn even the basics sign up for a trade school class to get you started in the RIGHT direction.  If you want to be a hobbyist then get some books and practice - trial & error works 

This is correct,trial and ERROR.mostly error.It has taken me over 50 years to get to my current skill set and I am still
not satisfied but am also winding down.I will be taking more time out of the shop for sure.I do have a lot of machine
shop experience with barrel maker Bill Large and a shop here that catered to the coal mining industry. The owner called
me when he needed someone who had a fine assortment of tools,knew how to take care of machines and did NOT have
a Sheriff after him with a non support warrant.It takes time to gather the skills,tools sources for materials like 0-1,1144
Stressproof and others. I made bronze bushings and bearings for obsolete car transmissions as long as the price of bearing
grade bronze was compatible with keeping my prices in line.One of a kind items were also a specialty with me and I got a
good bit of it to do. There are a lot of ways to gain the needed skills if you're really interested and there are others on this
forum who will tell you the same thing.Hang in there.

Bob Roller

[Dwshotwell]

Lots of good replies here. I'll be sorting through the videos and the book recommendations, but I fully acknowledge that most of it will indeed be trial and error.

Thanks to all.

[RichardW]

For books let me suggest an early edition of "Machine Tools and Machining Practices" by White, Neely, Kibbe, and Meyer. The first edition (1977) has two volumes and for the most part is manual machine tools, hand tools, micrometers, various calipers and bench work. It is a good reference and how-to text. I think they are up to the 9th or 10th edition now. Stay to the early editions; the later editions get more into CNC machines and programming and remove material like manual cutter grinding and setting up shapers. You should be able to find the early editions for $20 or under. I used this series when working at a local community college in the machining program and are well written with lots of pictures and technical charts.

As Wade mentioned, an early copy of Machinery's Handbook holds a wealth of information. Mind you a lot is related to machine design, math, trig, geometry, strength of materials, bearings, motors, etc. The early books have cool stuff like how to cast Babbitt bearings.

I'll second the suggestion of an intro manual machining class at the local JVS or community college if one is available in your area. It gives you access to tools and knowledge you may not have. And as I told my students you can break drill bits and taps on the schools check book. Not that I encouraged that, but you have to find the limits somehow and better in school than in a Chambers lock kit.

Hope this helps,
Richard