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Author Topic: Need better accuracy in my .58  (Read 6119 times)

Offline rich pierce

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Need better accuracy in my .58
« on: August 27, 2017, 04:57:45 AM »
I have a .58 flinter, D weight, 1 in 66" twist.  I haven't shot it a lot yet, maybe a couple hundred balls downrange, intermittently. It loads smoothly.

Not getting good accuracy yet, shooting .570 balls, 0.017 ticking, Lehigh lube, and 90 to 110 grains of FFG. The recovered patches are perfect.  Easily could be shot again.

Is this the right range of powder for this twist?  My next step is .575 ball but I don't have a mold yet, and I'm befuddled that the patches are perfect but getting poor accuracy.  4" group at 50 yards and bad beyond that, on a day when my .45 is grouping great for me, 2" at 50 yards.  That's as good as I can normally shoot with open sights.

Back to the .58, I suppose I could go with thicker patching as it loads easily enough with .570 ball (.571 actually) with the 0.017 ticking.

What would be your next move?
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Offline smallpatch

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2017, 06:01:26 AM »
Rich,
If your patches look good, try laddering your powder charges.  Start low, say 50g, go up 5g at a time till that group shrinks.  When you find a good group, try different patching, or larger ball. Your magic combo is in that area somewhere.
In contemporary, deep rifled barrels, I've never been able to get good accuracy with smaller than a .005 under bore size ball.
Hope that helps.
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Offline okawbow

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2017, 06:10:30 AM »
I need .024" thick denim in my deep groove .54 with a .530 ball. Anything less groups poorly. Once the ball is started, it goes down easy, even after several shots.
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Offline Standing Bear

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2017, 06:11:48 AM »
.571+ .017 + .017 = .605. A true .580 w .010 gr grooves = .600. I'd look at a thicker patch in the .020 to .025 range.
TC
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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2017, 06:34:32 AM »
When working up the best grouping load I would only change one variable at a time and shoot at least 5 shots each, 10 shots each would be better as you will some times get some fliers. Save the targets and you can lay them out after words and compare. Lots of combos and lots of targets but thats the fun part of it.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2017, 01:07:05 PM »
My .58 cal.  1 in 66  shoots 65gr. 2ff and a .020 patch lubed with wonder lube. Colerain 29" swamped with the deep radius groove rifling. It shoots OK. Probably shoot better if somebody else that could see was shooting it. :o
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Offline Don Steele

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2017, 01:14:58 PM »
I'd be looking at testing 2 things...separately of course. Change one thing at a time.

1. Thicker patch. If easy smooth loading isn't providing the results on the target that you should expect, there's only one way to go.
2. Less powder. Like Mike just posted..take a good look at powder charges in the 60-80 gn. range.
    Your rifle might like those better. Your shoulder will definitely appreciate the change..!!  ;)
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Offline wattlebuster

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2017, 02:53:17 PM »
I would go thicker patch an lower the powder charge. My 62 likes a good thick patch an 80 gns FFg which I think is a low charge for a 62
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2017, 05:54:55 PM »
I built a jeager for a friend, 31" Getz barrel, 1 in 66"  .58 cal. Very accurate with 60gr. 3ff.
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Offline Standing Bear

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2017, 07:25:43 PM »
Rich, I don't have a .58 so no .575s on hand or I'd send u a couple dozen. Thicker patch material is wAy quicker and cheaper to see if tighter combo will help. Also lapping in any of the many ways. If the patch is already cut it can't do its job. Load a ball then pull it to look at the patch.
TC
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2017, 09:37:09 PM »
Quote from: Mike Brooks on August 27, 2017, 05:54:55 PM
I built a jeager for a friend, 31" Getz barrel, 1 in 66"  .58 cal. Very accurate with 60gr. 3ff.

This is a Getz so I will try that load.  Thanks.
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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2017, 01:37:15 PM »
to each their own, as it should be.  for just shooting, not hunting, i prefer easy loose patched ball thumb start loading and reduced powder charges.  lots will depend on the rifling depth and groove bottom contour as well ... bobby hoyt does my barrels with .012 radius groove bottoms, and for my .54 that means .530 balls, .015 cotton patch strips with heat gunned in grease lubing, 50 or 60 grains of swiss 3f.  easy to load, good enuf accuracy that's better than i can shoot offhand.  for out to 50 yards tack shooting, i'll drop down to 35 grains of that 3f.   8)
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Offline JPK

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2017, 04:08:29 PM »
Perhaps your sights aren't as clear on this rifle as your other one. My latest rifle was grouping poorly till I widened the rear sight notch to allow a bit more light on the sides. Getting fine groups now with the same load as before.
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2017, 05:20:02 PM »
JPK you are so right that sights really matter. I cut my group in half when I opened the rear sight on my .45. When younger I used a slot rear sight like on a pistol. When I opened it to a v the group shrunk with these older eyes. The .58 has the same sight configuration as the .45. It does heat up faster it seems. Shooting at a public range is in itself challenging. Only 15 minutes of shooting then at least 10 of clearing the line, changing targets, getting back into the booth.
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Offline Frank

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2017, 12:32:42 AM »
When you get it shooting good, let us know the combination, ball, patch, and powder charge.
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Offline RichG

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2017, 02:47:15 AM »
58 target load, .575 rb, 75 grs 3f, .020 oatch with wet lube.
58 hunting load, .565 rb, 150 grs 2f, and .025 patch with mink oil.
Both loads will shoot clover leafs at 50 yds when I'm shooting good. Green Mtn. barrel with 1-72 twist. 
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Offline TommyG

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2017, 02:48:17 AM »
Rich,  I have been playing with the Marshall rifle I built this year.  Rice .58 with 1-66.  So far at the range(i,m lucky to have a blackpowder club next to my house, no one there during the week), this is what I have found, I will probably need another session or two.  I am using a .575 hand cast ball with an .020 mink oiled patch, no swab between shots.  I've tried loads with 2f and 3f in 5 gr. increments from 70 to 90 grains.  The 3f at 80 gr seems to give the best groups.  At 25 yds - holes touching, at 50 - 2" with an occasional flier.  I'm wondering if the flier could be the 3f (or me).  Need to go back and try 2f up into the 100 gr range, also need to do some better quality control on my casting as I think I might have a few rounds that may be a couple of grains light, need to weigh each ball and cull.  I also have some .022 bull denim patching that I might try, a bit tougher to load though.  What barrel are you shooting?  TomG
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2017, 06:40:35 AM »
Tommy, thanks, mine is a Getz barrel. Getting some thicker patching this week and am going to get a .575 mold too. Will let you all know what helps.
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Offline Fyrstyk

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2017, 03:43:37 PM »
My .58 hunting load is 120Grains of 2f with a .575 cast ball and .018 pillow ticking patch lubed with mink oil.  This load gives me 1.5" at 75 yards from the bench, about 3" offhand.  I usually will not take a shot at game beyond 75 yards unless I have a solid rest, and a clear shot to the vitals.
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2017, 04:46:56 PM »
Fyrstyk, I don't want to be on a shooting match with you. 3" offhand groups at 75 yards is way out of my league. You should go to Canada for some competition! ;)
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Offline Fyrstyk

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2017, 02:56:38 PM »
My .58 has a peep sight, and the 3" grouping is my average group at 75 yards on my good days.  Of course this is at the range when there is no pressure to make my shots.  In the field, I try to find a quick rest when ever possible.  I won't take a shot at game unless I have a solid shooting position or the range is very close.
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Offline Darkhorse

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2017, 10:19:43 PM »
My old eyes finally deteriorated to the point I could no longer shoot accurately. My shots started hitting a few inches high and the groups were more open than usual. This was around August, by January I no longer had hunting accuracy, which is the only thing that concerns me. I was seeing 2 or 3 lines above the rear sight, all blurry.
I had been thinking for a few years about making and installing simple peeps on the tang but had never followed through with it. But after hunting season I went ahead and made one for my .40 and .54 along with new front sights.
This is all documented in another post from a few months back. Suffice to say my groups went from scattered to excellent off the bench. Just something to think about.
First photo is how my .40 was shooting with the iron sights. The other photo is after I fitted the peep sight. The results from the .54 equally satisfying. Here is the URL to that earlier post.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=43554.0


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« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 10:29:05 PM by Darkhorse »
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2017, 09:02:19 PM »
Used some 0.022 mattress ticking wattlebuster sent me for patching with .570 ball in my .58.  I only got to shoot one group at 50  and one at 75 yards this morning but am seeing improvement.
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Offline hanshi

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2017, 09:14:02 PM »
Mattress ticking has it all over the "pillow ticking" stuff.  It's thicker and it's a bit stronger.  Denim has it all over both.
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Offline WaterFowl

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Re: Need better accuracy in my .58
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2017, 06:18:05 AM »
Rich..keep shooting ...you'll get 1 inch group at 75 yet...thicker patch is better..

found some 25 thous. cotton duck material at Joann's fabrics..bring your mic or dial caliper..

wash it twice and iron it after.

my58 cal.42" rice 1-70 likes 110 gr 2f goex... mink oil patch lube..

aim small- miss small.
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