Blowing down the barrel

[rollingb]

Now and again, unloaded guns do fire. Worked with a lady who lost her grandson few years back, to an empty 20 gauge

I am very impressed by those of you who always Know for Certain whether or not their gun is loaded.

What did she do, beat him to death with it?

I gotta admit,.... I snorted some coffee out of my nose when I read Mike's reply. 

[sqrldog]

O I know when my gun is loaded it is loaded all the time or at least it's treated that way whether the ramrod indicates otherwise or not. I really enjoy guns,  muzzleloaders most of all I'm not afraid of them but maintain a healthy respect for them.  My sons and grandsons also treat every gun they encounter as if it was loaded. Muzzle direction is always as best it can be done is in a safe direction.
As I have said before I personally don't care whether you blow  down your barrel or not. That is your call. I find it totally unnecessary but oviously some of you do. I understand the practice being prohibited at ranges it goes against every rule in gun safety to do it. Ranges and range officers are responsible for everyone on the range and this prohibition just makes sense. I too having been involved in investigating several horrific hunting accidents and then reviewing every report in the state for several years find no humor in a death or serious injury from an accident.  Tim

[oldtravler61]

  Well Brooks obviously the kid did not KNOW how to check the firearm to see if it was loaded. Thus it cost him his life.....!  Oldtravler

[hanshi]

Loaded or unloaded, I always know which.  If I'm interrupted during loading I leave the rod in the bore; regardless, I always check with the rod again just to make sure.  I also know when it has fired.  A flash from the pan and a big cloud of smoke from an unloaded gun, does not come!  When loading, I keep my head away from the muzzle; only after it has fired do I ever allow myself to give the bore a "puff".

[Frank]

Anybody who is sticking the barrel in their mouth is doing it wrong.

Maybe YOU are wrong, mind your own business.

Wow, A little sensitive aren't we. I personally don't like the taste of steel and black powder fouling.  I cup my hand over the muzzle and blow into my hand. Works quite well.

[Mike Brooks]

  Well Brooks obviously the kid did not KNOW how to check the firearm to see if it was loaded. Thus it cost him his life.....!  Oldtravler

Listen Bub, This Kelly   guy that posted above  also says that 95% of the muzzleloading  guns we shoot are unsafe because of the barrel steel they are made out of. I don't take anything he says seriously. As always I appreciate your opinion as well, always informative.

Listen folks, it's a free country, (or used to be) I'll continue to do what ever makes me happy until I get thrown in prison for it.

[bones92]

Joe:  Take a chill pill.  Tim meant that the whole bunch of us are all getting older with very few replacements coming up.  Seems like all the shows are full of grey headed old men with no crowd of youngsters to fill in the dwindling ranks.  I joke about a restaurant in my home town that checks IDs at the door.  If you aren't 60 or over, they don't let you in.  The NMLRA membership is tapering off.  Kids today don't  have Davie Crockett and Jeremiah Johnson to get them interested in the hobby.  They have Androids and Iphones, and parents who shudder at the thought of any kind of gun.

EC121, I think you're right.  But I also think there is a chance to get more young adults into the hobby.  Specifically, the late 20's through 40's... these are the guys and gals who may appreciate the calm pace of muzzleloading more than teenagers, though I do not discriminate by age when I continually lobby people to come out and try muzzleloading.  I have brought at least 6 friends (and about 4-5 young boys) out to our club over the past year.  None had ever fired a BP firearm before. 

[rollingb]

I don't understand why the "non blowers" don't give precise answers to the original question posted under this topic header.
Instead, they talk about opening the cylinders and actions of guns to make sure they are unloaded before handing the weapon to another person (I'm not sure how one does either of those things with a muzzleloader). They also talk about "thumpin' the butt of a gun on the ground" resulting in an accidental discharge at half cock (or at least that's what they "think" happened), yet they can't give one single example of someone blowin' their head off when blowin' down the barrel of a muzzleloader.

Even an example was given of the NMLRA ducking the question when asked (by one of the fellas here) about the "rule" THEY came up with. Why didn't they come right out and say who that victim was and when'n where the accident happened? (if it really did happen)

I've been shootin' muzzleloaders since 1969, and I'd like to hear of one documented case of someone blowin' their head off when blowin' down the barrel of a muzzleloader.

Just one,.... ??

[Mike Brooks]

Anybody who is sticking the barrel in their mouth is doing it wrong.

Maybe YOU are wrong, mind your own business.

Wow, A little sensitive aren't we. I personally don't like the taste of steel and black powder fouling.  I cup my hand over the muzzle and blow into my hand. Works quite well.

My apologies, please forgive.

[bones92]

I am completely onboard with safety procedures mentioned here.... years of Marine Corps qualification have ingrained them into me.

But muzzleloaders are not repeating arms.  There is no chance of 'forgetting to eject the last round from the chamber, despite removing the magazine'. 

It's very simple.... if there is smoke drifting out of the muzzle, there's a pretty good chance it was just fired.   If you don't see smoke in the bore, there's no point in blowing down the barrel because either the smoke has dissipated or the gun has not been fired.  Either way, you have no viable reason to blow down the bore.   So if you don't see smoke, don't blow.  If you do see smoke, the gun is no longer loaded.

Perhaps a catchy rhyme will help...

A bloke should blow air, only when smoke is seen there.

[Mike Brooks]

it seems we went over this same topic three or four months ago with less angst.

[oldtravler61]

  Well Brooks unlike you I see know humor in tragedy. You can handle your weapon anyway you want.
 People that have been around muzzeloaders for a long time know(or should)when a gun is safe.
  It's the inexperienced that need to be taught. So they don't hurt themselves.
  Humans have a nasty habit of doing something stupid when they least expect it. That's when Murphy takes over...or the Reaper.. Oldtravler

[Juice 1952]

Juice:  you may rest assured that when your rifle fires, ALL of the powder in the rifle is burned.  There is NO unburned powder left in the breech.  Impossible.  But what remains is the fouling from the combustion of the charge, and all the other charges you have fired since it was last cleaned.  It is possible for an ember to remain in that cake of fouling, and when new powder is poured on top of it, the powder can just lay there, as there is insufficient heat to ignite the new charge.  Now you seat a ball onto the new powder charge, and compress the air in the bore as you seat the ball, fanning the ember, and igniting the charge.  The ramrod and the ball is blown out of the bore, many times causing injury to the loader.  I have seen it only once.
This condition is one of the good reasons why folks blow down the bores of their rifles prior to loading an EMPTY rifle.  Your breath contains a significant amount of water, and it is the intention of the person loading to extinguish any ember that may be sitting in the fouling at the breech of the bore.  There are safer ways to accomplish this same thing:  use a wet patch on a rod after each shot, or use a blow tube in the muzzle with your face off to the side.

  Not to be disrespectful sir but can you show me the scientific studies upon which you base your statement that I can be assured that all powder is completely burnt under all circumstances for each and every shot for all shooters ?  Do you have a degree in chemistry or some related field? Have you personally conducted an exhaustive scientific study or can you cite someone in the scientific community who has conducted such experiments or is this based simply on your personal convictions ?  I am nearly as old as you and I have already stated that I personally have never had a problem in my fifty years of shooting . I was only relaying what I had heard on other forums for the sake of discussion.

[Mike Brooks]

  Well Brooks unlike you I see know humor in tragedy. You can handle your weapon anyway you want.
 People that have been around muzzeloaders for a long time know(or should)when a gun is safe.
  It's the inexperienced that need to be taught. So they don't hurt themselves.
  Humans have a nasty habit of doing something stupid when they least expect it. That's when Murphy takes over...or the Reaper.. Oldtravler

Is it possible for you to drop the hostility? Generally when folks call me "Brooks" they're fixin to take a swing at me.

[rollingb]

   While I have never witnessed it myself,,, I have read reports by other shooters suggesting that under certain unusual circumstances unburnt powder can build up on the breechplug and hold a spark. They cite instances of guns firing during the process of seating a ball on the powder charge resulting in ramrod being shot up into the air or through the palm of the loaders hand . Since the guns had hammer down and frizzen open they feel a spark held in unburnt powder is the only possible explanation for the premature firing . So the concern is that blowing down the barrel might cause such a deposit holding a spark to ignite the unburnt powder and cause damage to the lips,face, and or lungs of person blowing down barrel. I have never witnessed such an accident nor do I personally know anyone who has actually witnessed this type of accident. I am only relating what I have read on other forums as food for thought.

I think maybe you are misunderstanding what you've "read on other forums", because what you are describing makes absolutely no sense.
If you drop a charge of powder down the barrel (followed by a PRB) and "fire" it,.... there is no way you can get that same charge of powder to "fire" twice no matter how much you blow down the barrel.

Now if you're saying that once a charge has been "fired" and you drop another charge of powder down the barrel THEN blow down the barrel, and that doing so might cause the second charge to go off,..... WHY would a person EVER blow down a barrel AFTER dropping a fresh charge of powder in??

The whole premise of blowin' down the barrel, is to soften the fouling from the previous shot, and to let you know the vent/nipple is open.

Some also claim that blowin' down the barrel will also help extinguish any remaining "embers"  that might remain in the breech after "firing". (IS THIS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?)

[Dennis Glazener]

I think this topic needs to be put to rest. I am locking it.
Dennis