Hawken Rifile Barrel Length?

[tippit]

I'm staring to look for a nice .54  Hawken rifle.  I've seen them with 30" to 36" barrels...advantages/disadvantages to real short vs longer.  Are all those lengths correct for a Hawken?

[Bob Roller]

I'm staring to look for a nice .54  Hawken rifle.  I've seen them with 30" to 36" barrels...advantages/disadvantages to real short vs longer.  Are all those lengths correct for a Hawken?

I have seen,handled and fired an original J&S Hawken with a 42"barrel.
Other than the similar appearances there is no real uniformity as found
in military rifles.NO two of these guns are exactly alike and the best any
one will do without an old one to copy is to make a representative rifle.

Bob Roller

[tippit]

Thanks Bob...

Will a 30" barrel shoot as well as say a 34" barrel assuming they are the same quality.  Another way of thinking...would y'all prefer a longer barrel?

[redwood]

I have three Hawken rifles with three different barrel length. 33.5, 35, and 32.5 ". The 35 is a little muzzle heavy. The 33.5 is my favorite. Just my personal preference. I think 32 to 34 is ideal.

[Marcruger]

As many Hawken reproductions are heavy straight barrels versus swamped, be careful of the barrel length.  They can get muzzle heavy fast.  A tapered barrel or shorter length would certainly help this.  For one or two shots a heavy barrel is fine, but for long strings your supporting arm gets tired!  I have shot a 36" heavy octagon straight barrel in .50 cal.  Notably muzzle heavy.  Just my 2 cents worth.  I have to keep in mind the original Hawken rifles were probably not shot in long offhand strings.  Best wishes, and God Bless,  Marc

[tippit]

Is a 30" barrel too short?  Will it suffer accuracy compared to a 34"?

[oldtravler61]

  Tippit if your keeping your shots inside 125 yards I don't see much difference. Personally I prefer a shorter barrel.
  With modern guns with every inch more you roughly gain 25 fps. Give or take. Well that's what the chronograph shows. But then it's really how much you want to hold. If I was hunting in open country an longer shots. Would diffianatly go with a longer barrel. JM2 Cents. Oldtravler

[tippit]

Hogs on my four thousand acre south Georgia lease...Palmettos & Cyprus swamps.  Shots will be short.

[BOB HILL]

Looks like home to me!     Bob

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I built my person Hawken with a 36" tapered 1 1/8" bbl.  It is 11 pounds and is too heavy.  Following that I built a couple of other rifles using the same barrel and cut them at 34" and 32"...much better handling rifle.  I would not go shorter than 32".  The accuracy is not affected, but the sight radius is shorter, so it is more difficult to hold the rifle still.  That is to say, the same amount of movement is exaggerated by the shorter barrel.  Think of shooting a .38 spl with a 8" bbl and then trying the same pistol with a snub nosed barrel.  Because of the barrel length the sight radius amplifies your giggles.  The best handling Hawken rifle I have ever held has a 30" x 1 1/8" x .54 cal barrel and a 13 1/2" lop.  Sheer joy.  Still, it lacks grace, and there's more to a Hawken, or any rifle for that matter, than utility.

[David Rase]

I built my person Hawken with a 36" tapered 1 1/8" bbl.  It is 11 pounds and is too heavy.  Following that I built a couple of other rifles using the same barrel and cut them at 34" and 32"...much better handling rifle.  I would not go shorter than 32".  The accuracy is not affected, but the sight radius is shorter, so it is more difficult to hold the rifle still.  That is to say, the same amount of movement is exaggerated by the shorter barrel.  Think of shooting a .38 spl with a 8" bbl and then trying the same pistol with a snub nosed barrel.  Because of the barrel length the sight radius amplifies your giggles.  The best handling Hawken rifle I have ever held has a 30" x 1 1/8" x .54 cal barrel and a 13 1/2" lop.  Sheer joy.  Still, it lacks grace, and there's more to a Hawken, or any rifle for that matter, than utility.

Taylor, I remember inletting a tapered .62 caliber barrel for one of your Hawken's.  Do you remember the dimensions for that barrel?  I always liked that barrel.  It would of been great for carrying and hunting but not so much for the shooting line.  I think it was a rebuild you were doing for a friend that was damaged during a fire if I remember.
David   

[rsells]

Hawken rifles are very dear to my heart, and over the years I have always shot Hawken rifles for competition as well as hunting.  I have built rifles with barrels from 30 in. to 36 in. length in .54 cal. for my own use, and came to like the 34 in. length best for tapered as well a straight barrels.  That length seems to feel and work best for me.
                                                                                         Roger Sells 

[ScottH]

I have a John Bergmann built Hawken rifle with a Bob Hoyt barrel. The barrel is 34" long and is 1 1/8" at the breech tapering to 1" at the muzzle. It has a nice figured maple stock and weighs a bit over 11 pounds. I think it is muzzle heavy. It shoots nice but it can be tiring holding it on target for long. Also I live out west and lugging that 11 pounder up steep mountain sides may not be for every one, just sayin! 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

David:  I still have not done anything with that wood and barrel you did for me.  the barrel came with a J & S Hawken set I bought from Don Stith, and I believe it is a Rayl barrel.  It is 1" at the breech, 15/16" at the muzzle and 36" long.  It is light and handy, and the length is not an issue in the slightest.  Being .62 cal makes it a pretty lightweight rifle.  Yes, the rifle was lost in a trailer fire, but I salvaged all of the steel that was turned over to me, and after a lot of cleaning, the barrel, lock and Roller triggers are fine.  Some day...

[flehto]

Built a LHed  S. Hawken from Stith and it had a .54 cal,  tapered bbl....1" at the breech and 7/8" at the muzzle and is 36" lg.....an all day gun that's appreciated by the owner  who hunts elk in some pretty rough terrain at 10,000 plus altitude. ...actually the total bbl length including the hooked breech is 37". I think the longer bbl length adds something to the Hawken look....Fred

 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Really nice work Fred!

[redheart]

Thanks Bob...

Will a 30" barrel shoot as well as say a 34" barrel assuming they are the same quality.  Another way of thinking...would y'all prefer a longer barrel?

I have used a "30 bbl. Hawken and it's a joy, especially on horseback, but keep in mind a shorter sight radius does affect accuracy to a small extent, so the farther you can put your front and rear sights apart the better.

[little joe]

In my younger years ago (35 ago) I built me a fair Hawken with .50 cal, 1 in. OD by 38 in bbl. It was a great shooter, a little muzzle heavy but I was horse enough to handle it. Them days are gone.

[madmtmike]

34" on my Selb Hawken. 54 cal.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have two Hawken rifles that came from my bench in the 80's that have 16" lop and 36" parallel barrels in .60 cal.  They are 12 # and 11 1/2# respectively.  I am considering shortening the lop to 14" and bobbing the barrels at 28" just to make them usable.

[ScottH]

"I have two Hawken rifles that came from my bench in the 80's that have 16" lop and 36" parallel barrels in .60 cal.  They are 12 # and 11 1/2# respectively.  I am considering shortening the lop to 14" and bobbing the barrels at 28" just to make them usable."

Taylor,
 I would probably shorten the first one to a 32" barrel as a test before cutting it to 28" just to make sure I wanted it shorter than 32 inches. But they are yours so it is up to you.  Let us know how that project goes. Shortening those butt stocks will be an interesting project.
Scott

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The two rifles belong to my friend Sam Curtis, for whom I made the rifles way back then.  He is 87 and wants to sell them so I posted them in "Classifieds" but not a bite.  The fly in the ointment, so to speak, is the 16" lop's.   I have a local fellow who may take the percussion rifle and hire me to do the make-over.  If that comes to pass, I will document it digitally, and present the work here. There are several original Hawken rifles extant, that have had their barrels bobbed so that only one rod pipe remains instead of two.  But bringing the saw against those Toenjes barrels rubs me raw.

[Blacksmoke]

Taylor:  Just stumbled across your post re: the two 60 cal. Hawken rifles which have 16" lop.  Be ware of shortening the barrels at the muzzle because , if my memory is correct , the bores are tapered and chocked similar to what Bill Large used to do with his barrels.  To cut the muzzles could destroy the barrel's accuracy.  Just a thought,   Hugh Toenjes

[Hefner]

In January of 1982, I completed my last Hawken style rifle. I used a 1" x  34" .40 cal. Douglas barrel, a Griffith lock and matching hooked breach plug/tang, and IIRC Hawken Shop furniture and triggers.  The stock was shaped from a piece of figured cherry wood cut in Illinois in 1960.  The finished rifle weighed 10.5 pounds.  Charley Maggard did all the drilling and tapping for screws, etc. along with a lot of encouragement along the build process.
My son, Andy, won the Arizona Junior Muzzle Loading Championship two years in a row at age (1986 + 1987) 14 and 15.  I placed 3 rd. in the One Gun aggregate in 1987 with the same rifle. I out scored a member of the US International Muzzleloading Team (from California) to wind up in third place! My shooting skills never improved much after those couple of years because of old eyes.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Thanks for the input Hugh.  My local friend has claimed the percussion rifle!  But now the work begins..  I will be removing the GS patchbox and cutting the buttstock off at 14" lop.  You know that as you move up the butt from the buttplate, the vertical dimension of the butt gets smaller.  Thankfully, the butt plate I used was exceptionally deep, so it will be about normal when I reposition it.
More on the barrel later...