Shellac and ash finish on Tennessee rifles

[BeanStationgunmaker]

Several old rifles in this area were coated with a finish that appears to be shellac and ashes.Just wondering if anyone here has used this method.Thinking of trying it next Tenn.style rifle I build-using very plain wood of course.A rifle that's been in the family since before the Civil war was finished with it till a relative decided to strip it down-against my strong advice.Now that I have it I may redo the original finish as near as I can.

[rich pierce]

Hi, I've never heard of this. Is it a gray finish?

[BeanStationgunmaker]

Yes,kinda blackish gray with a shine to it,looks like tree bark.I seem to recall Foxfire 5 having a little about it.Makes a decent camouflage I guess.

[rich pierce]

Camo finishes on guns is a new concept. I'd be surprised if a finish was deliberately made to be extra plain or hide nice grain back in the day.

[FDR]

Sounds like you need a "test piece" before you try a stock! I wonder if the original finish might have been some type of varnish that did not age well.

Fred

[BeanStationgunmaker]

Looked it up in Firefox 5.Jim Moran spoke of early rifles being coated with a mixture of carbon black and varnish or linseed oil to glint on the wood.The one we have would look just like a sapling as would 3 or 4 others like it I saw when I was a kid.Don`t remember for sure .but it might have been my grandpa who told me his uncle used shellac and ashes when he restocked it.
 

[Cades Cove Fiddler]

  ... most likely lampblack & boiled linseed oil to darken & dull the finish .....

[BOB HILL]

What is it stocked with. He didn't say he used ash and finished it with linseed oil did he? Just a thought. I have used soot from a wood stove and my first thought was this was what you meant when you said ashes.       Bob.

[54ball]

 Collectors have a phrase describing attic condition originals, it's in the black.

 Old oil and varnish finishes turn black over time due to oxidation.

 Now many old and not so old guns have been enhanced with lamp black, paint and sometimes even mud.

 It sounds like what you are seeing is oxidation and depending on materials used and how it was stored....they can be quite crusty.

 I know of no finish where ash is used as a finish component. Never say never but I have not heard of such.

[SingleMalt]

Probably the lead drier oxidizing and turning black.

[WadePatton]

Oh darn I thought this was about using shellac as a sealer for Ash stocked guns.

One can extract KOH from hardwood ashes. And folks often did this for use in the saponification process of turning fats into soap. It makes a softer soap than the NaOH we get at the hardware store now.

One could also use the KOH solution to enhance grain on Cherry before finishing.  Otherwise it sounds a bit novel, I cannot imagine anyone ever TWICE finishing a gun in a Shellac mixture.  It simply won't weather.

[BeanStationgunmaker]

It`s a very plain piece of cherry wood.Soot may very well be what was used with shellac,its been 30 or 40 years since my grandpa told me about the guns history so details are fuzzy.Sure was durable,no rust for 50 years sitting in a attic.

[rich pierce]

Are you talking about metal or wood finish or both?

[BeanStationgunmaker]

Entire gun was covered,as were a few other old rifles I saw years ago,all were in this area,east Tenn and all were plain undecorated rifles.I`m thinking after the responses that most likely it was linseed oil mixed with lamp black.Shellac and ashes may be a faulty memory or my grandpa may have been mistaken,it was early `70`s when he was recalling it`s history to me.

[shortbarrel]

I have a mountain rifle that is shellac finished. Large rifle, could be a chunk gun.  Finish is dark brown and walnut wood. Rifle is  cap lock and  is made by a good builder

[Nordnecker]

For whatever it's worth, I think shellac has an undeserved bad reputation. I always heard it would turn white if moisture came in contact with it and would break down if alcohol touched it. These things would happen if someone left a cocktail glass sitting on a piece of furniture for instance. So I decided to test this and see for myself.
I finished some scrap pieces with several layers of shop-made shellac. I left half empty beer cans and drinking glasses sitting on the pieces. They never made the proverbial white ring on the test pieces.
Since these tests never had an effect, I decided to throw the pieces in my slack tub of water, which sits out in the sun by my shop. I was surprised to find that after being in the water and sun for a week or more, the shellac finish stayed intact and didn't turn white. I simply left the pieces floating in the water. It was at least 3 weeks, maybe a month before the finish failed. It never did turn white, but rather flaked away and disappeared.
An old salt once told me that they used to shellac the woodwork on their boats. I had my doubts until I did these tests.
I have several pieces of furniture here in my house that I finished with shellac. My wife sets a hot coffee mug on one of them every morning and it has yet to have any effect at all. Just sayin'.

[shortbarrel]

   shellac is a good finish, see my post above. ashes were for buffing down the dry stock to keep the glare down.

[BeanStationgunmaker]

Thanks for the replies everyone,learn a lot on this forum thanks to all the good folks. 
Jeff Johnson.

[Ric27]

While talking to the gunsmith Mike Miller of KY he explained to me his method of finishing a rifle with some type of shellac.  I would never thought it would hold up but he assured me it would against anything but alcohol. Mike knows his stuff so I'm thinkin' there is a way to make it work.
   

[n stephenson]

While talking to the gunsmith Mike Miller of KY he explained to me his method of finishing a rifle with some type of shellac.  I would never thought it would hold up but he assured me it would against anything but alcohol. Mike knows his stuff so I'm thinkin' there is a way to make it work.
 Ric is correct . I talk to Mike on a regular basis and, he does use shellac for his finish. He buys the shellac flakes and puts them in an alcohol vehicle , over the years he has developed his own brew. His rifles and fowlers have seen extensive use by some of today`s foremost trekkers and outdoorsmen and, have been drenched accordingly in rain and canoe wrecks , and he reports that they have stood up just fine. I think it would  be safe to say that Mike `s shellac is a better brew than the stuff from Lowes or somewhere. Woodcraft sells shellac flakes in a few different colors.