Gettin Started

[WYSharpshooter79]

Howdy Folks,
   New to the forum here. Before I go on, a little about myself.
   Ive always enjoyed history mostly 1800s, anywhere from Lewis and Clark, through the civil war, to the end of 19th century. Used to go to rendezvous with my father when I was younger, shot a few rifles with him and enjoyed it. Havent shot one in while though since I started working and got married.
  Never built a muzzleloader before, but I would like to take a shot at it. Im an HVAC mechanic, using tools and working with my hands is what Im used to doing. I have a lot to learn about woodworking, but that is something I am trying to learn also. My first project I would like to be a full stock hawken flint rifle in 54 cal. I dont want to rush through it, I want to take my time, learn, and do it right. This probably wont be the last project either.
  My questions are what tools do you folks suggest getting just starting out, recommended books, videos, etc. Any advice is greatly appreciated and will be listened to. Thanks for the help and letting me join up here.

[Nordnecker]

OK, I'll answer. You might as well start off by getting yourself a Track of the Wolf catalogue. That will cost you 5 bucks. Then you can start saving for your lock, stock and barrel, etc. That will cost about $800. In the mean time, you need to read as many old posts on this forum that you can, from this page right on back to the beginning. Spend time in the virtual library, too. Unfortunately, a lot of old pictures are no longer there. Good luck.

[WadePatton]

Welcome to the forum WYS79, I'm going to go ahead and be "that guy" again and remind you that we've fielded that question a few times and it's all right here in searchable format. I don't think the answers have changed much and everyone has to apply them to their own set of circumstances.

I'll say this.  TOW is not the only supplier, but it's a great catalog to have a copy of-1:1 scale locks make it really handy for planning and layout.

Don't get more books/videos.  Get less.  Fret over learning exactly how the Hawken should look.  I recommend seeing everything Herb (here) has made.  He's out West too.  There are other experts in that school, I aren't one. 

Also note that PhotoBucket destroyed a lot of old posts around the world--or at least the photo content with their new rules.  Now we can load pics directly to this forum.  Also there are lots of other hosting sites.

Cheers I gotta run, enjoy and maybe you'll find a local even. Nothing like hands-on, eyes-on help from a real builder.  WP

[Gaeckle]

Books are okay, videos are better, but the best bet is to team up with someone who knows how to build one. Learn to inlett, practice inletting, inlett as much stuff as possible: coins, pieces of metal in odd shapes, your neighbors cat....get good at inletting and a lot of your first build problems may be avoided. The best practice would be to find somebody who will show you a thing or two. Good luck.

[Don Stith]

One of my pet peeves
  There are lots of guys willing to help you on this forum
  I notice that you don't care to share your name or what part of the world you live in
  Why should I share my knowledge with someone that secretive?

[Kingsburyarms]

WY - Welcome aboard, Also, look through the forum, there are classes available that many of these builders offer, and it would launch you much further and faster to take one, get strong advice and hands on experience, then apply that to your project. 

Jon

[rsells]

Good to have you with us.  It looks like you are traveling the same path I did when I got hooked on muzzle loading rifles in the mid 70's.  Hawken rifles are great, but they are much more complicated to build than one first thinks.  I would recommend you check Don Stith's web page to see the rifle component parts he has put together.  He knows the characteristics of the Hawken rifle, and his parts are first rate.  As mentioned earlier Herb has a bunch of photo's in his post of rifles he has built.  If you live in Wyoming you probably have visited the Cody museum.  If not, it is well worth the trip, they have a great display of Hawken rifles that you can look at in person.  Also, the museum has a photo section on their web page that has reference photographs (multiple views) of each of the rifles they have at their location.  However, if they haven't changed the way they have named the rifle, you might have to look under different subject name like plains rifle or Hawken rifle to see all of the info.  It is well worth the effort to work through the issue to get the reference photo.  Also, search the net for "Green River Rifle Works Collector's Association".  They have a bunch of photographs of rifles that they put out in their quarterly news letter.  They have a bunch of photo's of the Bridger Hawken that GRRW used to make their Bridger Hawken before they closed the door years ago.  Good luck with your build.
                                                                                            Roger Sells 

[hanshi]

Welcome to the forum.  I don't build but my passion is for earlier flintlock longrifles.  Good luck on your build; there's a lot of help available here.

[WYSharpshooter79]

Thanks for the replies. Yes I do have a track of the wolf catalog, two of them actually, new and old one. I had noticed too that photobucket was missing pictures when I was reading back through older posts, was wondering why that was. Will continue previous posts as suggested. As far as the firearms museum in Cody, I live about 20 miles from it, we will be taking a field trip there with the homeschool group my kids are in. Nice thing about being that close is that we have year round access to it. The inlay practice I was wondering about, did you guys practice by inlaying locks, triggers, etc is regular pieces of wood? A guy I work with has taken a class in buildig before has offered to help also. I dont know if there are classes in the Cody Wyoming area. I will ask and find out. I figured my questions had been asked before but wanted to introduce myself a little since I just joined. Thanks for replying. Will continue to read and study as suggested.

[John SMOthermon]

Welcome to the fire! There are a lot of talented Individuals on this board.

Most of which are willing to help a new Guy out. Good Luck on your build and keep us posted.

[WYSharpshooter79]

Will keep everyone posted, thanks. Might be a little bit before I start on it. Need to practice the woodworking end of things and research and read. My father gave me an L&R Durs Egg lock I can practice inlaying with. Thanks.

[Joe S.]

Yes,welcome,I am building a flint full stock hawken for a first build myself.Do your homework.Lots of things to get one of these rifles right,little details and many "suppliers"do not supply the right parts for this type of rifle.The folks here are a great help,they will help you along if you need it.Ask questions,post pics and they will get answered,there's some very talented folks who build quite a few hawken rifles.To add to that list I suggest you look up past posts by D.Taylor Sapergia,the man knows his hawken rifles as well.

[Bill Raby]

   I started out with lots of metal working experience but very little in wood. The wood part really did not end up giving me any trouble. I think the most important thing is probably knowing how to use tools. You likely have the skill that you need and just lack the knowledge. Good thing is that knowledge is a lot easier to get than skill. Plenty of books out there and you learn pretty much anything from You Tube.

   For tools you pretty much need a drill press and basic hand tools. Other than that is a set of good files and rasps. Also a set of chisels. Don't go cheap on these. Cheap tools will just make the work miserable. Spend some time learning how to sharpen chisels. They need to be sharp enough to shave with.

   One of the big things I learned with my first rifle build is that there are no parts of it that are actually hard. But there are quite a few parts that take a really long time. Just let it take as long as it is going to take. But spend forever trying to figure everything out. At some point it seems to work out best to quit thinking and just do it. It usually starts to make sense somewhere along the way. Take your time. Getting in a hurry will just screw things up. No point in getting it done before you have enough money saved up for the next one anyway.

[little joe]

One of my pet peeves
  There are lots of guys willing to help you on this forum
  I notice that you don't care to share your name or what part of the world you live in
  Why should I share my knowledge with someone that secretive?

45 years ago every thing was so secretive in building and shooting ML,s and I made up my mind that if I could ever help anyone I would. Thanks to Cornell Kemper and a few others I was able to pull the grade. Most or all of  you guys have a skill level far above mine however I have helped a few folks I did not know build and many to shoot. If I die today I.m taking no secrets with me as i have gave them all away.

[54ball]

 From a building perspective, a Hawken is about the worst choice for a first time builder. A pinned barrel Leman or 19th Century late Lancaster flint longrifle would be so much better for a new builder.

[Black Hand]

From a building perspective, a Hawken is about the worst choice for a first time builder. A pinned barrel Leman or 19th Century late Lancaster flint longrifle would be so much better for a new builder.

A trade gun would be an even better first choice. As Fur Trade is of interest, I'd suggest a Northwest Trade Gun.

[Bob Roller]

OK, I'll answer. You might as well start off by getting yourself a Track of the Wolf catalogue. That will cost you 5 bucks. Then you can start saving for your lock, stock and barrel, etc. That will cost about $800. In the mean time, you need to read as many old posts on this forum that you can, from this page right on back to the beginning. Spend time in the virtual library, too. Unfortunately, a lot of old pictures are no longer there. Good luck.

The Track of the Wolf Catalog is $10, not $5. To the best of my knowledge there are no pictures of antique flint Hawken
rifles. There are plenty of full stock rifles with percussion Hawken hardware and they are good looking but not authentic.
There is also no reason NOT to make one if you want to.The Track catalog has full size pictures that can be measured and makes the job a lot more pleasant.
Welcome to this forum.You're among friends.

Bob Roller

[WYSharpshooter79]

Thanks for all the replies. Been reading a lot on this forum and learned a few things already. Will keep you folks posted.

[WYSharpshooter79]

 From a building perspective, a Hawken is about the worst choice for a first time builder. A pinned barrel Leman or 19th Century late Lancaster flint longrifle would be so much better for a new builder.

A trade gun would be an even better first choice. As Fur Trade is of interest, I'd suggest a Northwest Trade Gun.

Well, the other rifle I was considering was the Early Tennessee rifle in 54 cal as shown in the track of the wolf catalog. Are you folks thinking this might be the better choice? I already have have a Durs Egg flint lock too.

[Mike Brooks]

I never practiced inlaying anything.

I'd not build a Hawken for a first rifle. (I did but it ended up a Hawkins instead ) I'd not build anything iron mounted or with a deeply crescent buttplate. Nice brass flat buttplates are easiest to inlet. In fact a "poorboy" would be the best as you'll be out shooting it about 6 months earlier.

[Mike Brooks]

One of my pet peeves
  There are lots of guys willing to help you on this forum
  I notice that you don't care to share your name or what part of the world you live in
  Why should I share my knowledge with someone that secretive?

One of my peeves as well. I always have trouble remembering who is actually who.

[Joe S.]

So secretive,perhaps he's al queda,just got done being thawed out and doesn't know  what century he's in,LOL.Some folks just aren't comfortable putting all their personal information out there.WHSharpshooted,jump in the deep end and build the rifle you want to build,do the home work, acquire the right parts,take your time,ask the right questions and enjoy the ride.I'm far from one to give advise but that's the path I chose and have no regrets other than not getting a butt plate with a longer heel,LOL,don't sweat the small stuff

[oldtravler61]

  Whsharpshooter Welcome to the ALR.
  When picking out what you want to build. Try o find an actual gun that you can put in your hands to study.
 Getting the right parts for the gun is the EASY part. Getting the lines of the gun or architecture is another thing.
  Unless you have a mentor to help you. Keep your first build simple.
  If you do want to practice inletting use the wood type that you are going to build your gun with. Cherry,maple or walnut. They all have there characteristics.
  Also learn to sharpen your chisels.
 Last but not least learn Patience. Without it building does not go well. Oldtravler. aka another Mike without the B

[dogcatcher]

While you are reading the old threads, keep a set of notes, a week or month from now you will need that info and want to refresh it  But with no set of notes, you will have to look for it again.  Electronic notes saved on a computer are easy, simple copy and paste to document form using Microsoft Works or Open Office.

[Mike Brooks]

So secretive,perhaps he's al queda,just got done being thawed out and doesn't know  what century he's in,LOL.Some folks just aren't comfortable putting all their personal information out there.WHSharpshooted,jump in the deep end and build the rifle you want to build,do the home work, acquire the right parts,take your time,ask the right questions and enjoy the ride.I'm far from one to give advise but that's the path I chose and have no regrets other than not getting a butt plate with a longer heel,LOL,don't sweat the small stuff

I know who you are and sit outside your house and spy on you every night with my binoculars.......