Author Topic: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee  (Read 3769 times)

Offline Leatherbark

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Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« on: September 29, 2017, 11:00:28 PM »
Its a standard Pedersoli type Bess.  Always wanted to scratch that itch so I bit the bullet and its on the way.  I've had 20 gauge flint fowlers in the past so I'm not new to the smoothbore game for sure.  My first question Does a 12 gauge Jag work ok in the .75 bore?  What size ball for a patched ball load?  I'm thinking .715.  I do cast .690 and will try some.  They cast out as .693 with wheel weight lead. I have some. .025 denim but there will still be windage somewhat. Of course I'll have to try some paper cartridges for sure. I'm curious about one thing though. Does the Pedersoli bess have a patent breech like their rifles? 


Bob

Offline Daryl

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2017, 01:56:48 AM »
A .75 will do OK with the .715" RB, however you might order a .720" to .725" from Jeff Tanner for a better fit with normal .018" to .020" denim patches.  A .735 is too large for a .75 (11 bore) if using patches.  A slightly larger .740" or even .745" might be a good Tanner mould to use if just using wads with the ball.
Good luck with it.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Bill Raby

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2017, 03:15:31 AM »
I have one of those. Lots of fun. I am using a 11 gauge jag. Not sure if 12 gauge would work very well. Shooting .735 balls with .015 patches and 90 to 120 grains of FFG. Works great.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2017, 10:24:45 PM »
The Bess was Military rifle not designed to shoot a cloth patched ball, period. They shot a paper cartridge. Try shooting a bare .690 ball, dropped right on top of the powder. Dimpling the ball will help with accuracy. And jack the powder charge up to around a hundred grains. This shoots great in my smoothbores, and doesn't kick all that hard, since it has no patch. I hold the ball in place with a wad of tow, or a chunk of hornets nest, or even an overshot card, anything to keep the ball on top of the powder, without totally sealing the bore.

  Hungry Horse

Offline redheart

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2017, 01:54:48 AM »
The Pedersoli Bess doesn't have a patent breech. Thank God!  ;D




« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 01:55:28 AM by redheart »

Offline Daryl

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2017, 08:41:50 AM »
Taylor's Brown Bess shot just fine with patched round ball, both of them.  The Lyman gun was good enough to put a cloth patched ball through a moose's lungs at about 100 yards.

The 1728 model he built (actual .774"=10bore) shot exceptionally well with a .735" ball and .030" patch, well enough to make a benched 2 1/2" group at 50 yards for me.

They weren't designed to shoot shot either, but in the States, a LOT of shot was put through them for upland birds. 
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline yulzari

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2017, 08:13:53 PM »
The Honourable East India Company Army, user of Brown Bess' and their percussion successors, used a 0.685" ball in a paper cartridge with a 120 grain charge. In the early days the charge was much higher but that was due to poorer powder. I use modern French 'musket powder' in mine but that last is no help to you. For a musket the only consequence of using other than pure lead is a slight difference in diameter and mass.
Nothing suceeds like a beakless budgie

Offline Daryl

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2017, 10:04:01 PM »
Until about 1820, the issue US Military ctg. for their .69's (which ran to 70") was 165gr. with a .640" ball.  This included the prime.

When switching to better powder, the charge was dropped to 135gr., which included the priming until the model of 1842, which was the first percussion model. About 1830 or so, the ball's diameter was increased to .650" which produced somewhat better accuracy.

Buck and ball issue loads used were roughly double those fired with single ball only due to the greater probability of hitting & possibly wounding what was pointed at.  There was also a buckshot ctg. that contained 9balls, IIRC. These were larger than .30 cal. ea.

info from "Firearms of the American West 1803-1865"

Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline thecapgunkid

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2017, 12:51:32 PM »
Shoot the gun, awreddy and stop thinking too much.

I shot my Charleville for years without a wad and without knowing the difference.  I just hit stuff so I was fat, dumb and happy.

Somewhat bigoted, I always thought these should be fun and not a science project so I never paid attention to the guys with the mics and scales.

If in doubt, there's always buck and ball and you can always bounce off the posts of the guys with the mics and scales anyway because ten minutes on this forum and you'll learn something somewhere.

Offline Leatherbark

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2017, 02:28:42 AM »
WOOOeeee NOT!.   The Pedersoli Bess came by UPS today.  I'll have to think it over a long time before I ever buy another gun from Cabelas. LOL.  To start off this rant a big chunk of wood was broken out of the walnut stock directly in front of the lock.  Probably about 1/2 inch wide and as thick as the wood is there over to the barrel and tapering 3 inches to a point.  I could have asked for a discount of a few hundred dollars LOL and re-glued it but the touch hole was drilled by Mr. Magoo.  It was a 1/4 inch left of center.  I couldn't live with that even if it fired superfast.  Pedersoli let this one by the inspector.  I don't believe it was broken during shipping.  It looked like a natural crack.  So why am I disappointed in Cabelas?  They didn't send any return slip paper thingy authorization and the lady as nice as she was told me she was sorry and I would have to pay for shipping and insurance back to Nebraska.  I asked her if I would be reimbursed and she said good luck trying and that once again she was sorry.  Sheesh.  She said I could take it back to a store for exchange or refund. Dang that's 75 miles away. This was after being on the phone trying to get someone at customer service.  If I ever buy another Pedersoli it'll darn sure be in person where I can inspect it.

Bob

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2017, 03:03:37 AM »
Hey Bob, sorry about your experience there. Every bit of it makes us wiser.

Maybe you can "limp along" with that one until you can save some extra bucks and get a hand-made or put one together yourself. There could be semi-custom guys who'll sell you one in the white inside your budget-and with better fitment and assembly.

Best of recoveries.  ;)
Hold to the Wind

Offline thecapgunkid

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2017, 05:09:14 AM »
Leatherbark... I asked her if I would be reimbursed and she said good luck trying and that once again she was sorry.  Sheesh.  She said I could take it back to a store for exchange or refund

Really sorry to hear this because there are few things worse than having high expectations and getting so disappointed.

Whenever I run into a sit like this I usually write what my Kids have called a NOLAC ( Notice of Liability and Consequence)

Start by researching the execs at Cabelas, not the somebody's-daughter buried low in the food chain.  Try to picture their point of view

Pick the top three people, and set aside three envelopes.

Now write them a letter.  Copy the Better Business Bureau in your addressee section.

In the first paragraph, cite all the success and loyalty you have had with them.
In the second paragraph, maybe including a couple of pics, give a simple statement of your problem.  Include how disappointed and angry you are
In the third paragraph cite the actions you are considering, inclusive of class action or whatever you feel appropriate
In the last paragraph cite what you feel is a just resolution and your fervent desire to remain a client ( not a customer) as opposed to a negative reference worth ten clients. 

Don't threaten and don't write with any emotion other than disappointment and reluctance to act.

I've only done this when sure I AM IN THE RIGHT and never failed to get a positive resolution and mutual win within one week.

Stuff the envelopes and put them into a $7.00 priority envelope so you can track it.  The priority is addressed to the CEO with everybody else's copy in that envelope. When it gets to headquarters the chances are the CEO will delegate and everybody else will lose their poise.  Your solution is not only going to get what you want, but designed to have a positive ending  because this one mistake does not reflect the quality company they aspire to be.

I'll betcha The young lady on the phone perceives that she is just doing her job.  She didn't know whether you were some kind of crack pot or whether you had a legitimate complaint and did not see  going the extra yard for you as an acceptable risk.  She's probably somebody's daughter or wife, and you don't ever want to lose your temper with the line employees.  Get to the managers who can facilitate the decision you want.

Hang in there, pard; you did not deserve this disappointment but I bet you can get the dingy off the reef.

Godspeed

Capgun

Offline Bill Raby

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2017, 09:10:42 AM »
   Sorry to hear that it did not turn out so well. I have a Pedersoli Brown Bess that I bought shortly before I started building guns and am quite happy with it. It is not a hand made work of art, but it is easily better quality than most of the rifles that that you will find at the local gun store. Every company is going let a few lemons escape every now and then. Pedersoli generally does good work. Sounds like it will be a bit of a hassle, but I think that you will be pleased when it is all done.

Offline Leatherbark

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Re: Have a Bess on the way. Wooeeee
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2017, 09:27:41 PM »
Cabelas came through and made it right after I got ahold of the right person and she noticed I was a preferred customer.  They bent over backwards and did a couple of somersaults to keep me from being upset. What can I say but everything is ok now.

Bob