Harden frizzen

[Nate McKenzie]

Hi all.  I have a Rifle Shop 1742 Willets lock.  I don't think the frizzen has ever been hardened. Anyone have experience doing this and would you be interested in doing it?

[Hungry Horse]

First of is the frizzen good steel, or does it need case hardening?

  Hungry Horse

[Bob Roller]

According to TRS old print catalog,they make(made)their frizzens and frizzen from 6150
which,if I remember right is a castable spring steel.They recommend water hardening but I
am skeptical of that idea.I still have some Kasenit and if you have any or can find some,
Heat the frizzen from the back side and after it gets to a bright orange,add the hardening
agent (Kasenit or Cherry Red or whatever else) and hold that heat and let it melt into the
face of the frizzen.I use an old coffee can full of light oil with a catch screen about halfway down
so the object hardened is surrounded by oil.After it cools,use a magnet and get the frizzen out of the oil and
the clean it off,polish it and using a small torch like a Berns-O-Matic and draw the color over the pan
cover to a dark blue and let it air cool.After cooling,test it with a file across the face of the frizzen
and if it slides without digging in,install it on the lock and see what happens.

Bob Roller

[Joe S]

I have used two Rifle Shoppe locks.  One frizzen sparked well after hardening with a water quench.  I was unable to harden the second frizzen, so I brazed on a 1095 face.  Sparks just fine now.

[deepcreekdale]

Jose, did you treat the 1095 face in any way? How did you braze it and keep it hard enough to spark, I have riveted soles on frizzens but never have tried brazing. I like the idea though.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

When I harden a frizzen where I do not know the material:

1.  First, I try heating to the transition temperature of about 1500F and air cool.  The frizzens on the Grice Brown Bess lock are often air hardening steel (really - no kidding!)

2.  Usually the air cooling does not harden so next, I try heating to the transition temperature of about 1500F and oil quench, I use canola cooking oil.  Check for hardness with a file.

3.  If the oil quench did not harden the frizzen, I repeat number 2 but quench in brine, a gallon of water and a container of salt.  Check for hardness with a file.

4.  If the brine quench did not harden the frizzen, I case harden with a mix of 1/3 hardwood charcoal, 1/3 leather charcoal, 1/3 bone charcoal followed by a brine quench.

5.  If this does not work, I punt!  Actually, I add a frizzen sole plate, riveted onto the unhardenable part.

Jim

[Jim Kibler]

Hi all.  I have a Rifle Shop 1742 Willets lock.  I don't think the frizzen has ever been hardened. Anyone have experience doing this and would you be interested in doing it?

Nate,

If you still need help with this, let me know.  I should be able to help.

Jim

[Hemo]

When I recently had a frizzen that wouldn't harden with an oil quench, I was able to get it quite hard by case-hardening using Cherry Red quenched in water. I did three applications before I checked for hardness--maybe overkill, but it did produce a good sparking frizzen. (Bob Roller pretty well covered it above.)

Here's a link:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006364292/cherry-red-surface-hardening-compound-1-lb

A similar product is available from Brownell's:

https://shop.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/color-case-hardening/surface-hardening-compound-sku083000033-27119-52952.aspx?cm_mmc=PPC-_-Itwine-_-Google-_-083-000-033&gclid=CjwKCAjw6szOBRAFEiwAwzixBSDV-bdae6rGeDMZGrP56qZVjXwy86hHb5t9xt7x7cZ5yPz6xnrBkRoCguUQAvD_BwE

Good luck!

Gregg

[Mark Elliott]

Here is a link to the data on 6150.    It is listed as a oil quenching steel.    I usually use some Kasenite on the face even when the steel is through hardening.   

[Bob Roller]

Here is a link to the data on 6150.    It is listed as a oil quenching steel.    I usually use some Kasenite on the face even when the steel is through hardening.

A little extra carbon does no harm and I have done the "boost" for many years.

Bob Roller

[Joe S]

Jose, did you treat the 1095 face in any way?

No.

Braze, cool down, clean off a little brass, reheat and water quench, then temper as usual.

That's it. 

The melting point of the brass I was using is about 1700^o F, and the temperature for hardening is about 1500 ^oF, so the brazing and hardening are completely separate steps.

[Nate McKenzie]

Thanks for your replies. Jim Kibler- thanks for your kind offer. There are two addresses on your web site. Which one shall I send it to?  PM sent.