3F versus 2F

[Jim Jackson]

If anyone has done any testing on this I would appreciate the results.The question is how much of 3F would give the same results as 70 grains of 2F? What I am trying to figure out is the difference in 3F to give the same performance as 2F. I know 3F has higher velocity than 2F  but how much? Thanks

[Daryl]

Many times- what calibre?

In my .45 using LeeHighValley lube, a .022"denim patch and .445" pure lead ball, my 75gr. 3F charge was duplicated with 85gr. of 2f - both GOEX powder. Not only was the velocity duplicated, but so

 was the 1/2" 5shot group accuracy at 50 yards.

In my .40, a .398" pure lead ball and .022" denim patch using the rifle's accuracy load of 65gr. 3f charge was duplicated in both accuracy (1/2", 5 shot groups at 50 yards) and velocity with 75.gr. 2F.

In both these barrels, there was no fouling buildup between shots - loading was identical and both, indeed, all of my guns are loaded shot without any wiping during a day's shooting.  If I've been talking to or helping other shooters, with my ML gun sitting idle for a long period of time, the fouling from the last shot inside the barrel can get a bit crunchy. Oft times, before shooting seriously again, I will dump in a charge with a super wet patched ball and shoot that - at a gong or mark, and then load up for serious shooting.  The 'fouled' shot rarely hits any where other than it should, but i do this, just in case it is off a big due to the fouling.  I've shot over 100shots in a day's shooting, without ever having to wipe a bore.  There never is any fouling buildup that prevents loading. I attribute this to a good crown that prevent patch cutting, and using a water based lube (when target shooting).  Indeed, when I've shot the trail using Neetsfoot Oil (100% pure) or Track's Mink Oil, I have never experienced difficult loading, either.

Indeed, when using mink Oil in the .32, the 50th shot loaded as easily or more easily than the first one did.

[Tim Ault]

In my 50 cal  for my hunting and target loads for that matter it takes 10 gr less 3F  to give me the same point of impact on the 50 yd target . ie: 40 gr 3F same as 50 gr 2F for woods walk load  , deer load is 70 gr 3F or 80 gr 2F   Accuracy is about the same with those loads 3F or 2F

[Vomitus]

"3F for pistols,
 2F for rifles"

   Lynton MacKenzie



jus sayin

[OldMtnMan]

I like 3F for everything. 10gr less than 2f for the same fps. Not exact, but close.

[Standing Bear]

I shoot 4F in the pan and FFg for a main charge in EVERYTHING. .32 to 12 ga pistol, flint pistol, all of em.  Works well enough to have won 10 championships and 4 National Territorials.   Pistol was this year. 3 Gun Agg - flint .40, percussion .40 and ROA.  In 2017 flint Agg w a .40 SMR.

Don’t get hung up on hear say.  Shoot your guns and find out what works best in each.
TC

[TommyG]

My son & I have identical Lyman Deerstalkers in .50.  Mine likes 2F, his 3F.  Like Standing Bear says, shoot your gun and find out what the gun likes.  It also helps to write and record all of your load data while doing this.

[hanshi]

I shoot 3F in everything just to keep it simple.  But I seem to always have a bit of 2F around for when I feel like experimenting.

[Daryl]

The last time Taylor and I were out at the Blackwater range and his chronograph was set up, I tested loads with both 3F and 2F in my .69.
2F gave higher speeds than 3f with the same loads, up to 120gr.
2F has proven to be more accurate in that rifle as well, than any load in 3F.
My other rifles have loads for both 2f and 3F.

[OldMtnMan]

How do you explain 2F giving higher speeds than 3F? I've seen Herb post that too, but couldn't explain why it happens.

3F has always been faster in any test I did.

[Daryl]

You need to test it in a large bore rifle.  I explained that, I thought. I used my 14 bore rifle.

In my .40, .45 and .50, 3F ALWAYS gives higher speeds than the same load of 2f. Not so, in the .69.

sry - I use 14 bore and .69 equally, at random - same thing to me, even though 14 bore is actually .693" true measurement

& my rifle is a rather undersized, at .690", a relative small bore, if you like.

The reason, is 2F burns more efficiently in the larger bore than does 3f, which has a faster burn rate and also develops

higher pressure -  at the breech. Muzzle pressure is less with 3f - most likely, or it should develop higher speeds in this rifle as well,

than does 2F. Such is not the case.