Old Horn or ??

[Tom Moore]

I picked up this horn at a recent show and I'm not sure if it's old or just make up. I have next to nothing in it so don't worry about offending me. There is a number "8" stamped or engraved in the brass. Otherwise, no markings. Thanks for your help. -Tom

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Hello Tom,

The problem with horn is it can be 100 years old or two hundred years old and look the same.  Generally I look at the style and go by that. 
If I had to put money on it, I would say this is 19th century.  But I could be completely off on that.  The 8 is interesting.  I wonder if it was a set?   
Either way you have an interesting piece that seems to be in usuable condition.  Great find. 

Coryjoe

[T.C.Albert]

Can you detect a seam in the brass spout indicating it was rolled and brazed not extruded?
TCA

[Collector]

Neat horn!  It's not a reproduction, in my opinion.  Powder or shot?  Looks more like a shot horn to me, although #8 shot (?) is pretty small/light stuff.  OK for dove or quail though.  Good luck!!

[Tom Moore]

TCA: Sorry I'm late getting back to this. Yes, there is a seam along the spout that looks to be soldered. It is very fine and you need a strong light to see it. You can also see a line around where the spout was soldered to the base. The color looks to be grayish so I assume that it's solder not brazing. Does that tell us something about when it was made? Thanks again, -Tom

[T.C.Albert]

it could...seamless tubeing was extruded around the civil war I believe,
so it could be first half of the 19th century or earlier...
Curt Johnson from here on the board may be interested in the engraved #...?
 

[Canute Rex]

I wouldn't read too much into the "8." stamp.

The spout doesn't have a cutoff mechanism, so it wouldn't refer to a measured capacity. The piece looks crafted rather than mass produced, so the brass base with the "8", or even the whole spout assembly may be recycled from some other object.

The way the "8" is cocked slightly in relationship to the edges of the piece, plus the presence of the arbitrary period or decimal point next to it gives me the impression that the brass hexagon was once part of a larger piece. In the 19th century people reused pieces of metal all the time. I have seen a number of blacksmith's ledgers that include the words "his iron" in entries.

It is a neatly crafted piece.

[Curt J]

I too, believe it is 19th Century. Oddly enough, I just bought a rifle by "J. NADLER, PERU ILL" that has a fairly large number "8" engraved on the trigger guard. The rifle I bought is the third one i have encountered with a number engraved on the underside of the trigger guard, all from the LaSalle/Peru, Illinois area. I also have a "P. P. SINGER" rifle made in LaSalle, which has the number "36". A third rifle, by "BRUNKER - OTTAWA" (about 15 miles away) was found in a basement in LaSalle and also had a number on the trigger guard. There is certainly a story here, perhaps rifles used by a local militia? Maybe this horn was a companion piece to a rifle so numbered?

[Canute Rex]

Perhaps I wrote too soon.

So Curt, is the 8 on your rifle the same style as the one on the horn? How about the other numbers? Are they followed by a decimal point? What I am wondering is, was this one person, perhaps a quartermaster of militia, stamping numbers on rifles (and, perhaps, accoutrements)? Or was this some idiosyncrasy of gunmakers in that small area? Were the rifles all of one style? Questions and mysteries are what makes it fun.

[Tom Moore]

Very interesting indeed. I would be very surprised if this little horn would have been considered large enough for military operations. It can't hold more than a cup of powder or so. And the nozzle diameter is way too large (3/8") for a priming horn. I also wonder if a shot horn would have been considered useful to the militia. Perhaps it was part of a set, or just numbered to a gun. -Tom

[T.C.Albert]

Information about mid 19th century "local" malitias from small towns here in the rural midwest is sketchy at best, but very intriguing...they were called out to quell riots that broke out over things like rail road workers wages...to evict groups deemed fit for eviction by the town...and of course to augment the law in criminal apprehension type cases. These guys wern't rangers...nor were they vigilantes, but seem to be an actual standing militia...maybe like our local civil defense folks...I can find matter of fact type references to when they were used in old daily papers and town histories...but not much else about them....yet.

That these towns maintained and inventoried an arsenol of sorts for their militias is a very plausable idea...Curt has mentioned several "numbered" rifles, all of a local origin...so perhaps more numbered flasks will turn up too? I am thinking rack #s for inventory.


And I think the size is none to small for the assumed purpose. These guys were not fighting pitched military type battles, but rather gathering as a show of force with policing actions as needed.

Thanks for the photos of the horn...definately generates alot of food for thought for just an old horn...a really neat old horn in my estimation...
TCA

[Curt J]

The "8" on my Joseph Nadler rifle, and the "36" on my Peter Singer rifle are engraved, not stamped. Both are about 5/8" tall and are intended to be read with the rifles vertical and the butt down, as they would be standing in a rack. Although made by different makers and being a bit different in architecture, these two rifles are of the same barrel length, weight, and caliber (.45). Both are walnut halfstocks with german silver mountings. The third rifle I mentioned  (by H. P. Brunker) was also quite similar in weight, caliber, etc. I saw this rifle nearly forty years ago, long before I knew about the other two. I do not recall the number, but it was the same size as the others and was also engraved into the trigger guard. I wish I could find that rifle again. And yes, the engraved numbers are quite similar in style to the "8" on Tom's horn.