Define "easy to load"

[Tim Ault]

I see this on here a lot a ball/ patch combo loads easy or the other way hard to load ? Been experimenting with some patching materials in different thickness past couple times out and the only thing that is different between any of them is all with the pressure applied to the starter with the palm of my hand  after in the barrel they all load about the same . No I don't use a mallet on the starter just a sharp rap with the palm , So for me all of my loads  load easy ? I guess?? How do others define easy loading ?

Tim

[Elnathan]

Start-able with ramrod alone, no short starter; can be pushed down to the powder in one movement once past the muzzle?

Don't think I've ever taken part in these discussions, but that is how I'd define it.

[John SMOthermon]

I'm no expert by any means but for me "easy to load" would be...

Thumb start ball, then being able to push the ball down the barrel a few inches without resistance.

Once the ball is down the tube 6" or so, you should be able to push the ball down into the powder without much resistance until it's firmly seated.

[walks with gun]

   Thumb start ball the a fairly even push with the rod.   I try to buy my molds a bit undersized or use a tough but thinner patching.

[Daryl]

I see this on here a lot a ball/ patch combo loads easy or the other way hard to load ? Been experimenting with some patching materials in different thickness past couple times out and the only thing that is different between any of them is all with the pressure applied to the starter with the palm of my hand  after in the barrel they all load about the same . No I don't use a mallet on the starter just a sharp rap with the palm , So for me all of my loads  load easy ? I guess?? How do others define easy loading ?

Tim

That is also how we load, Tim. We all consider what we do as easy loading. Once started, the ball and patch can be rammed down with only 2 fingers on the rod.  More control is met with the hand on the rod, so that is the method. We never have to wipe the bore while shooting that day, whether we fire 25 shots or 100.

[John SMOthermon]

I see this on here a lot a ball/ patch combo loads easy or the other way hard to load ? Been experimenting with some patching materials in different thickness past couple times out and the only thing that is different between any of them is all with the pressure applied to the starter with the palm of my hand  after in the barrel they all load about the same . No I don't use a mallet on the starter just a sharp rap with the palm , So for me all of my loads  load easy ? I guess?? How do others define easy loading ?

Tim

That is also how we load, Tim. We all consider what we do as easy loading. Once started, the ball and patch can be rammed down with only 2 fingers on the rod.  More control is met with the hand on the rod, so that is the method. We never have to wipe the bore while shooting that day, whether we fire 25 shots or 100.

What do you use for patch lube Daryl?

[Tim Ault]

You gents that mention thumb starting the ball , is that on a coned barrel ? If not you all have thumbs of steel ! I'm still pretty strong in the hands but there be no way no how I could do that witheven a .010 patch and my slightly oversized (.493) ball

[Eric Kettenburg]

In a .50 I generally use a .490 and whatever patching allows me to just give it a good whack with a patch knife, or push it in there with the rammer and a good grip if using precut patches.  Non-coned barrels.  Once it gets going, as noted above, it ought to run on down the bore pretty smoothly without having to bang on it with the rammer.

[walks with gun]

   My .45 mold cast a .438" ball and coupled with a .018" tallow greased pillow ticking patch starts very easy with thumb pressure.    My .54 mold was ordered at .526 and with asst. ticking also starts nicely with the thumb, no coned barrels here.   I'm experimenting now with some dense tight weave cotton I picked up at Joannes fabric's  That measures out to .015" ungreased that seems to be working good and also starts easy in my daughters and son-in-laws .50 flinters.   I've only tried up to 75grs. of FFFG in it so far but no burnt or blown patches.  If interested in a tough thin patch  It's called METR CORNSTALK SOLID TWIL   item number 400104936258.

[rich pierce]

I find smoothbores easy to load with shot.

[Dobyns]

I find smoothbores easy to load with shot.

PRB too!

[hanshi]

With all the ravages from ra, I've lost most of my hand strength.  Seating can sometimes be a tad difficult, for me, but probably not difficult from an objective perspective.  Most of the calibers I have are loaded with a .010" less than bore size ball.  Patches are generally .020" to .022" thick and require a little force, occasionally.  I will sometimes patch with denim but my hands are often not up to it.  Liquid lubes are noticeably easier to seat with but that's only at the range; in the bush it's mink oil.  I consider my combos relatively easy to load/seat.

[vtmtnman]

Thumb starting the ball means easy loading to me.

I know when I changed to .010 patching I'll never go back to.015 because the difference in pushing the ball down was amazing.Even down a bore with 10 shots through it.

[Daryl]

I see this on here a lot a ball/ patch combo loads easy or the other way hard to load ? Been experimenting with some patching materials in different thickness past couple times out and the only thing that is different between any of them is all with the pressure applied to the starter with the palm of my hand  after in the barrel they all load about the same . No I don't use a mallet on the starter just a sharp rap with the palm , So for me all of my loads  load easy ? I guess?? How do others define easy loading ?

Tim

That is also how we load, Tim. We all consider what we do as easy loading. Once started, the ball and patch can be rammed down with only 2 fingers on the rod.  More control is met with the hand on the rod, so that is the method. We never have to wipe the bore while shooting that day, whether we fire 25 shots or 100.

What do you use for patch lube Daryl?

For target shooting, as in trail walks, locally and at rendezvou, I use WWWF + a bit of pure Neetsfoot Oil.

WWWW is Winter Windshield Washer Fluid. I mix about 2oz. of NFOil in a liter (4 ounces per gallon) of fluid. Before pouring it in the patches, I shake the container, pour it on the pre-cut patches in "tin", then gently squeeze out the excess back into the container. I usually mix about a gallon at a time.

The oil quickly separates from the water based cleaner in a container, but not when it is in the patches.

Actually the only reason I put the oil in, is to slow the evapouration in the summer heat.  As it is mixed in such abig container, it gets used in the winter freezing weather as well as in the summer heat - one batch does for a year or more of shooting.

The WWWF costs about $3.00 to $4.00. A small can of Neetsfoot oil lasts a number of years.

For hunting, it's either Mink Oil or Neetsfoot Oil.  Both are allowed to saturate the patches, which are squeezed some to get rid of the excess. Most folks would say my patches are quite wet. The oily ones are oily handling, but sure lube nicely.

Using it in my .32 with the 10 ounce denim at .0225", or the .0235" ticking, was easier to load the 50th shot than the first going down a dry (WD40oiled) bore.

[TommyG]

I'm shooting .535 balls in my .54 and .575 in my .58 both using .022 denim patches, mink oil lube.  Both Rice barrels with radius grooved rifling.  As Tim mentioned earlier with the "thumbs of steel", there is no way I am simply pushing these guys in with my thumb.  On both barrels I have softened/radius the crowns using 320g emery ala Daryl's method.  I can manage to smack them in with a closed fist on the short starter, but they are not what I would say easy loading.  But I am not really interested in easy loading as opposed to downrange accuracy and consistency, and these loads seem to work best in my setup.  I have tried .020 and .018 ticking, a bit easier loading, but grouping opens up for sure. 

[smylee grouch]

I like idea that Tommy G has where accuracy trumps speed or ease of loading. My 62 flint rifle isn't that hard to load but it does take a bit of a thump with the short starter with the 610 balls that I get the best groups with, the 605s in a three shot loading block load a bit easier but I carry a polk of 610s in reserve if I don't really need to load in a hurry. Sighted in dead center at 140 yds. and not overly high any place in between.

[John SMOthermon]

I see this on here a lot a ball/ patch combo loads easy or the other way hard to load ? Been experimenting with some patching materials in different thickness past couple times out and the only thing that is different between any of them is all with the pressure applied to the starter with the palm of my hand  after in the barrel they all load about the same . No I don't use a mallet on the starter just a sharp rap with the palm , So for me all of my loads  load easy ? I guess?? How do others define easy loading ?



Thanks for the info.
Tim

That is also how we load, Tim. We all consider what we do as easy loading. Once started, the ball and patch can be rammed down with only 2 fingers on the rod.  More control is met with the hand on the rod, so that is the method. We never have to wipe the bore while shooting that day, whether we fire 25 shots or 100.

What do you use for patch lube Daryl?

For target shooting, as in trail walks, locally and at rendezvou, I use WWWF + a bit of pure Neetsfoot Oil.

WWWW is Winter Windshield Washer Fluid. I mix about 2oz. of NFOil in a liter (4 ounces per gallon) of fluid. Before pouring it in the patches, I shake the container, pour it on the pre-cut patches in "tin", then gently squeeze out the excess back into the container. I usually mix about a gallon at a time.

The oil quickly separates from the water based cleaner in a container, but not when it is in the patches.

Actually the only reason I put the oil in, is to slow the evapouration in the summer heat.  As it is mixed in such abig container, it gets used in the winter freezing weather as well as in the summer heat - one batch does for a year or more of shooting.

The WWWF costs about $3.00 to $4.00. A small can of Neetsfoot oil lasts a number of years.

For hunting, it's either Mink Oil or Neetsfoot Oil.  Both are allowed to saturate the patches, which are squeezed some to get rid of the excess. Most folks would say my patches are quite wet. The oily ones are oily handling, but sure lube nicely.

Using it in my .32 with the 10 ounce denim at .0225", or the .0235" ticking, was easier to load the 50th shot than the first going down a dry (WD40oiled) bore.

[little joe]

Using a thumb started ball what kind of groups do you guys shoot at 50 yds?

[P.W.Berkuta]

I see we have two different "schools" of thought on this. First is the tight load for best accuracy and less powder fowling camp and then there is the thumb start easy "push the ramrod" load camp. Sure does make your head spin . I like a SNUG load that gives me the best accuracy, least amount of fowling and ease of loading. Once I have that combination I stick with it I'm not of the "thumb start" school I use a short started and give it a wack to start the ball  .

[Frank]

Never had good accuracy using thumb start in rifles. Might be ok in smooth bores.

[John SMOthermon]

The only gun I own that I can thumb start is my 16 gauge smoothbore.

My rifles I use a mallet to start.

[Daryl]

Never had good accuracy using thumb start in rifles. Might be ok in smooth bores.

Frank, one of these days I am going to try that, in my 20 bore, using either the .595" ball from my Tanner mould.  That one does not have a sprue as that is snipped off after they are cool.
Might be interesting - but, the barrel has a slight choke and I prefer to to have to remove that as it powders clay birds.

[walks with gun]

   Is there any documentation of 18th century riflemen carrying longrifles using a short starter and or mallet.

[Elnathan]

   Is there any documentation of 18th century riflemen carrying longrifles using a short starter and or mallet.

Not in the Americas. Couple of early references in Europe when using a oversized lead ball, and a German reference for a short starter from around 1780 or so. In the 19th century they start showing up.

No, the mallet used with the Baker rifle was not a short starter per se- they only issued it to every second rifleman, and it had a lanyard in the handle, per De Witte Bailey.

[Tim Ault]

Starter I'll carry around and use without complaint it's fairly light and don't take up a lot of room and only ads maybe 5-10 seconds to the loading process  . Naaaa ain't gonna carry a hammer or other beating implement  even if  it aids accuracy. I'm not that good a shot to realize the gains anyways .