Origin of this piece?

[Dave Fox]

    I purchased this rifle at age fourteen in 1957 at an antique shop when traveling through western Maryland (my grandparents took me  on an annual antiquing and battlefield trip each May. I bought an antique firearm a year from 1955 through 1961). This one cost $70.00 of caddying and mowing money.  Roamed Indiana fields as a kid shooting (mostly at) crows and blackbirds. At that time it had an undersize .32 calibre barrel bedded in something like plastic wood and an ill-fitting percussion lock. Forty years ago I had a one-inch Bill Large barrel and an early L&R lock installed, both of which fit almost perfectly.  Everything else is original.

   I've always wanted to know, if possible, what its school or maker is and its era. Original barrel length was approximately 42-inches, straight and not swamped. Buttplate is massive, 1.64-inches at the widest. Help?

[Elnathan]

I suspect that it has been messed with some - those brass screws in the side washer and the funny shape to the side panel suggest an unskilled, 20th century hand to me. I'm wondering if this isn't a composite gun based around an old stock.

The trigger guard, if original to the stock, might be the most informative part.

[Hungry Horse]

Augh, another train wreck rifle. The big question with this one is, just how many train wrecks are we talking about.  It looks like it is a composit gun built from several old wrecks, that change progressively over time. Out West where I live, these are pretty common, since it was a long hard road coming across the plains, and it took its toll on firearms and people.

  Hungry Horse

[Dave Fox]

    Can't thank y'all enough for restating what I set-out in my initial post: that this is a rifle which has been tampered with by others and by me. I've always used it as a shooter; that's always been its value to me. Like a dog returneth to its vomit, I return to the question first posited in this post. Am hoping someone will look beyond the mag wheels, headers, and chopped roof and give me some insight into the question I've had for sixty years of ownership. The buttstock and very thick buttplate seem distinctive. I believe all the brass, possibly even the side plate,  is original. Does it appear to anyone to have come out of a particular place and time and, if so, when and where?

[Mike Brooks]

Here's what I think and I don't get paid much for thinkin'. The buttplate is NOT massive at 1.6" wide,It's latish, post 1790's. The forestock molding reminds me of some NC work although the squiggle at the end is probably a resent addition. The toe plate is about 3X thicker than old timey work and is also a resent addition. The trigger guard reminds me of  Bear Creek NC. The sideplate appears to be a modern abomination as well. Lock panels are funkadelic. I've seen something similar on a Hampshire county VA rifle.

[Tanselman]

One big help in attributing this rifle would be to get "standard" views of the gun, rather than the smaller, localized views of pieces of the gun. It is hard to really see the butt profile, amount of drop, etc. without seeing a larger "standard" half-shot of the front and back sides, showing complete rifle from butt plate out to about 10" past lock plate. The "standard" views show a lot more of the gun's stock architecture, which is a big help when trying to identify a rifle. A good view of the tang shape, and the guard taken from the bottom of the gun, would also help.

I also think the side facings with the oddly shaped, tapering tails really throw everyone off. They may be original, but I have never seen original side facings with that shape. If they have been re-shaped at some time, it would be helpful to know.

I have seen similar forestock double-line moldings that run through the barrel pins, and have the long, "wavy" termination behind the rear ramrod pipe, on central KY guns [detail probably carried to KY from NC], but other details don't appear to be from KY.   Shelby Gallien

[Elnathan]

    Can't thank y'all enough for restating what I set-out in my initial post: that this is a rifle which has been tampered with by others and by me.

It is kind of important to establish which parts are actually original to the stock and which aren't preliminary to figuring out where the stock came from. You mentioned you replaced the barrel and lock, but said nothing about the sideplate or altering the lock panels. I think that those were probably altered at some point prior to when you acquired it, probably when it was fitted with that undersized barrel you mentioned - ergo, we can't use them as a stylistic marker.

Basically, in order to tell you when the original gun was made, we have to first define "gun."

[Elnathan]

Now the way the stock is shaped at the entry pipe is interesting. Looks like it might actually be concave right at that transition point.