Author Topic: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg  (Read 19604 times)

ltdann

  • Guest
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2017, 03:34:20 AM »
Bob,

It's crazy.  The black powder cartridge guys can have as many loaded cartridges they want, it's bulk/loose powder they watch.  Regular powder I believe I can keep up to a total of 25 lbs.

As a result, most BP shooters (and there aren't many) do cap guns or inline.  So the idea of a ML club is great, but the truth is it's more trouble than most people want.

I looked into maybe making my own, but here it's considered manufacturing explosives.  That's a shame too, Florida is big firework club state and there's any number of kits available that make it easy to roll your own.

The American Pioneer plant blew up last year and that powder is now getting really difficult to find and I really don't want to go to Pyrodex for all the reasons discussed on this forum.  I'm not sure if AP is still in business.

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5284
  • Tennessee
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2017, 07:36:32 AM »
I'm leaning toward having Marvin Kemper cone the inside of the barrel.

And when you get bored with that setup (or shoot it out), then drill and tap for liner.  Easy peasy and you get to see how both work-eventually.
Hold to the Wind

Offline thecapgunkid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1094
  • Matthew 25:40
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2017, 02:42:42 PM »
Bones92...I am thinking about having a White Lightning liner installed.  I hate to mess with this rifle, but given that Marvin Kemper offered to install it, I consider it a "factory upgrade".

Do it...especially if you trust the craftsmanship of the installer.   Having shot with and without the liner and used both grades of powder, there is not a lot of difference in speed in the grades once it is installed but a significant difference in the use of the liner versus without.

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13366
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #53 on: September 01, 2017, 04:11:19 PM »
When I was shooting skeet at Friendship I'd shoot 9lbs of powder in seven days. Sure was fun! ;D
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Scota4570

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2317
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #54 on: September 01, 2017, 05:50:18 PM »
"But it's CA and if I get caught with more than 1 lb on-hand, I'd probably get the chair."

You worry too much. 

Clubs do group buys.  People place orders.  You are making a simple thing complicated.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 07:25:51 AM by Scota4570 »

Offline axelp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1531
    • TomBob Outdoors, LLC.
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #55 on: September 01, 2017, 06:44:08 PM »
I live in CA and although the law as written seems to indicate that you can only have 1 lb of bp, reality is way different. I spoke via phone and email to local government entities and they all stated that sporting powder falls in a different category than "black powder" as in for blasting purposes? So there is both a gray area and a bit of confusion as to the actual law. Add to that different county and city regulations, and private and business etc... and the true answer to what you are allowed to have in your possession at any one time in CA is "it depends." 

Heck just buy what you need and store it safely with a clean conscience. I have never been approached by any fed or state person regarding my black powder purchases, and I have been buying and shooting bp here for probably 30 years. Local sporting Goods stores that carry bp will sell me as many cans I want to buy-- so whatever restriction must not be on their side.

Ken Prather
Galations 2:20

ltdann

  • Guest
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #56 on: September 01, 2017, 10:00:44 PM »
I live in CA and although the law as written seems to indicate that you can only have 1 lb of bp, reality is way different. I spoke via phone and email to local government entities and they all stated that sporting powder falls in a different category than "black powder" as in for blasting purposes? So there is both a gray area and a bit of confusion as to the actual law. Add to that different county and city regulations, and private and business etc... and the true answer to what you are allowed to have in your possession at any one time in CA is "it depends." 

Heck just buy what you need and store it safely with a clean conscience. I have never been approached by any fed or state person regarding my black powder purchases, and I have been buying and shooting bp here for probably 30 years. Local sporting Goods stores that carry bp will sell me as many cans I want to buy-- so whatever restriction must not be on their side.

Ken Prather

It's got to be a county thing,  when I tried to buy a pound each of 3f and 4f I got read the riot act.  The one gun store in town won't carry it because of all the storage restrictions.

Whatever, I deal with it.

Offline bones92

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1179
  • I'm broke, and I blame Mike Brooks!
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #57 on: September 01, 2017, 10:47:32 PM »
Bones92...I am thinking about having a White Lightning liner installed.  I hate to mess with this rifle, but given that Marvin Kemper offered to install it, I consider it a "factory upgrade".

Do it...especially if you trust the craftsmanship of the installer.   Having shot with and without the liner and used both grades of powder, there is not a lot of difference in speed in the grades once it is installed but a significant difference in the use of the liner versus without.

Yes, given that it's Marvin Kemper doing the work, I'm fairly confident he can do this well.
If it was easy, everyone would do it.

Offline Goo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 708
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2017, 05:53:01 AM »
After looking at your photo I am of the opinion that the touch hole is in the wrong place.     It may be too high and too far forward.   IMHO the hole should be just about touching the face of the breech plug and centered in the pan both horizontally and vertically.   It also looks like there is a hint of a raised edge around the circumference of the hole which may deflect flash from reaching the charge as efficiently as it could.  IMHO a touch hole liner would be a great solution to improve ignition by repositioning the hole.
Opinions are expensive. Rich people rarely if ever voice their opinion.

rfd

  • Guest
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2017, 01:47:58 AM »
i long ago gave up the use of 4f for the pan, gave away a few pounds of the stuff.  one horn of 3f takes care of both the tube and pan.  less krap to have to deal with.  if yer ignition is "slow" or yer getting hangfires, it prolly ain't the powder.


Offline little joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #60 on: September 03, 2017, 12:09:07 PM »
Very good video. Some novice will watch it and go some where blowing down the bbl  is not  allowed and get a arse reaming over safety violation.

rfd

  • Guest
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2017, 12:27:08 PM »
i make NO excuses for blowing down the barrel - it is the correct and SAFE thing to do.  as a certified NRA RSO, i know the letter of its laws.  in this litigious society, we have this overwhelming stupid desire to protect dumb people at the expense of the smarter ones.  yes, such a practice is verboten at most NRA, club and other ranges, and in those instances i'll use a neoprene blow tube.  thankfully, there are still public ranges around (and dwindling fast) where yer on yer own. 

it's a libertarian thing

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13366
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #62 on: September 03, 2017, 05:52:02 PM »
i make NO excuses for blowing down the barrel - it is the correct and SAFE thing to do.  as a certified NRA RSO, i know the letter of its laws.  in this litigious society, we have this overwhelming stupid desire to protect dumb people at the expense of the smarter ones.  yes, such a practice is verboten at most NRA, club and other ranges, and in those instances i'll use a neoprene blow tube.  thankfully, there are still public ranges around (and dwindling fast) where yer on yer own. 

it's a libertarian thing
Good link, pretty much how I feel about it.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Mike in Oz

  • Guest
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #63 on: October 06, 2017, 11:04:02 AM »
We had a BP shortage here in Western Australia last year which led to me and a "good ole boy" grinding F into FFF using a tiny little cast iron coffee grinder.

In short, never again.

I haven't twitched or sweated so much since i was in a war zone.

John Ciccone

  • Guest
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #64 on: October 12, 2017, 11:13:19 PM »
Dear bones, it seems to be universal that the folks here are recommending that you DO NOT grind your 3 F . When I read your question, I cringed. Definitely not safe.

Concerning 3f and 4 f as priming powder, I shoot with the international team, and everyone is now using Null-B as a priming powder. (It is equivalent to what would be 7f) very fast and reliable. As for 4F, many shooters are using 30 to 40 grains of it as a main charge in a .45 caliber pistol in 25 meter competition. For me, I find that the excessive recoil causes me to flinch. BUT, the heavier charges do result in better accuracy in a smooth bore pistol.

Offline bones92

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1179
  • I'm broke, and I blame Mike Brooks!
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2017, 08:52:48 PM »
I did lay out a few pinches of 3F on a piece of paper, rolled it with a cylindrical plastic glue case, and filled a couple priming flasks with it.  Did about half a teaspoon at a time.  Wasn't quite as fine as real 4F (I think) but sure seems to go off nicely in the pan.  Also, it dispenses much more consistently from my two priming flasks.

If it was easy, everyone would do it.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15381
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2017, 09:04:36 PM »
Static Electricity & electrical discharges and black powder.

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

and

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/electric_ignition/eignition.html

and

I removed the video as it shows BP guns not of a type allowed here- but if you are interested in watching it, the link is at the bottom of the text of the second url above.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 09:42:48 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline bones92

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1179
  • I'm broke, and I blame Mike Brooks!
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #67 on: October 16, 2017, 04:41:44 AM »
Daryl, that is amazing. Thanks for sharing this. I would have expected the slightest static spark to set off those granules of powder.
If it was easy, everyone would do it.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15381
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #68 on: October 16, 2017, 09:57:16 PM »
In the last video - he covers what he had to do to get ignition with electricity.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline bones92

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1179
  • I'm broke, and I blame Mike Brooks!
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2017, 04:43:31 PM »
Daryl, these links make me think that the perceived danger of static discharge setting off powder is without basis.   Laying out about 20-30 grains of 3Fg on paper (on a wood surface) and rolling with a glass or otherwise non-sparking cylinder does not seem to invoke any accidental ignition whatsoever.

If it was easy, everyone would do it.

Offline Hungry Horse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5486
Re: Grinding 3Fg into 4Fg
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2017, 07:18:24 PM »
Grinding your 2,or 3F down to 4F is a good test to see if you are just to nuts to own black powder gun in general, IMO. Sifting it though fine screen is scary enough.
 My great grandfather was nearly killed when someone who took exception to his being a successful Southern sympathizer after the civil war put shoe nails in the grain they brought to his gristmill. They  struck a spark, and ignited the flour dust. This is flour dust, not a class A explosive.
 Everyone of us must think out our actions completely before we act. It only take one horrific accident to put an end to the sport we all love.

 Hungry Horse