How many coats?

[mustanggt]

Using Jim Kibler's Ferric Nitrate stain. After four coats and heat gun treatments it is about a peanut butter color. I'm looking for that reddish brown tint and am not even close. The curl is quite subdued as well.

[Black Hand]

How hot are you getting the stock?

[mustanggt]

I get it hot enough to change color(almost can't put my hand on it) and then I move on. It's Jim's rifle kit. Very slim so I don't want to char it(which I did in one small spot).

[Nate McKenzie]

Try a little in the barrel channel. After heating, put some finish on it. It should look darker.

[mustanggt]

After I do the stain I was going to put Permilyn sealer and then tung oil. That sound like a good plan?

[Black Hand]

Wipe a little mineral spirits or acetone on the stock - it should give you a better idea of how the wood will look once the finish is applied.

[mustanggt]

Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try.

[Scota4570]

One coat.  Let dry. Try a heat gun or over the stove burner.  Something is very wrong if you are not getting color.  I'm 99% sure it the the heating step. 

Do not apply any finish until you have some decent color.   Once you apply finish you will not be able to use any more AF stain. Dye stains will not penetrate as well either.  The color you see wet with water is about like the finish will be.  Check with mineral spirits if you like.  You need to be sure you like the stain before you open the finish bottle. 

[mustanggt]

I just did the mineral spirits and it showed darker. It's better but not the reddish brown I was hoping for. More stain and heat? If I hold the heat a little longer will it get darker?

[elk killer]

I had this same issue, no matter how much I applyed, or how hot I got it,
it just was a light ugly tan color, used a coat of leather die over the AF stain,
came out the color I was seeking,
I KNOW everyone says leather die fades, but I have never experienced  that,
😊

[Jim Kibler]

My guess is not enough heat is being applied.  You will see a dramatic color change when the critical temperature is reached.  I'll try to record a short video and post a link.

Jim

[mustanggt]

Thanks Jim, fellas. I'll try more heat and if that still doesn't do it I'll try the leather dye.

[PPatch]

I just did the mineral spirits and it showed darker. It's better but not the reddish brown I was hoping for. More stain and heat? If I hold the heat a little longer will it get darker?

If you haven't any scrap of the same wood then, as Nate mentioned experiment in the barrel channel with the ferric nitrate stain. a few questions/remarks;

- what is you FN to water or alcohol mixture? I use alcohol at either 3:1 or 5:1 by volume. The 3:1 is stronger and gets there quicker.

- what is your heat source? It must be a radiating heat such as an electric burner will produce, or a heat gun with a visible heating element that glows.

- All woods are different as to their tannin content, if the tannins aren't there for the ferric nitrate to work on then the color is weak no matter how much FN and heat you apply.

In my experience three goes is all you get, three cycles of applying the FN mixture and heating. After that what you got is what it will be and the wood isn't going to go darker or show more toasty red/brown with the FN. Using a radiating heat source heat the wood to just below the scorch point, do your best to judge where that might be, and the thinner the wood the faster it will scorch. If you aren't getting a satisfactory reddish tone the some LMF Maple stain will help. The Kibler rifle below was stained with FN at 3:1 alcohol to FN, then stained again with LMF Maple.



Hope that helps.

dave

[elk killer]

I should have added...I have used Jims AF before on many stocks, and it worked perfectly,!! Some times you get wood that's just a pain..
 By NO means meant it don't work.

[mustanggt]

I have a heat gun with an element that I'm using on the low setting.

[ltdann]

+1 on the LMF Honey maple.  I alternated between LMF nut brown and honey maple to get the red-ish tint I wanted.  I had quite a bit of trouble with the ferric nitrate as well, as I recall.

[PPatch]

I have a heat gun with an element that I'm using on the low setting.

I have my heat gun at a high medium setting. It gets HOT and so does the wood.

dave

[Scota4570]

"on the low setting"...There is your problem. 

Use the high setting.  Start on the wide open spaces away from the edges at first.  It will darken when you get it hot enough.  Be carefull not to burn the edges. 

[David Rase]

I like to use the low setting on my heat gun and sneareduces the fear of scoarchingk up on the color.  The lower heat setting gets plenty hot and reduces the fear of scorching the stock.  I think slow and steady is the best path when it comes to aqua fortis.
David

[Dave R]

Occasionally I have found if a builder uses too fine of sandpaper the wood glazes over and will not accept stain! Try sanding a scrap piece of wood and stop sanding with 180 , 220, 280, 320, every few inches all the way to 600,  Stain this trial piece and reveal if the wood pores are slicked over and how stains are affected by progressively finer sand paper.

[P.W.Berkuta]

Every piece of wood is different and what works for one might not work for you. You have to "experiment" and that's where scrap pieces of the same wood comes into play. If you don't have any "same wood scraps" then you will have to work with other scraps to get a "feel" for how hot you can get the wood without burning it. Also Jim sells tannin powder which may help -- ask him about it.

[mustanggt]

Because of the slimness of this stock there is so many thin wood areas I left it on low and I still charred a few areas. I sanded to 320. It is my understanding that this ferric nitrate solution doesn't need to be neutralized, that the iron in it will use up the acid so it isn't corrosive anymore. Nothing in the directions to do so. I put the barrel back into the stock before bed last night and this morning I resumed work on the stock and the underside of the barrel had a haze of rust starting to form. So I'm taking a stab in the dark here by saying that maybe not enough iron got dissolved in the acid and that led to a weaker staining therefore resulting in the haze of rust I found this morning?

[rich pierce]

Might have retained some moisture also.

[PPatch]

Because of the slimness of this stock there is so many thin wood areas I left it on low and I still charred a few areas. I sanded to 320. It is my understanding that this ferric nitrate solution doesn't need to be neutralized, that the iron in it will use up the acid so it isn't corrosive anymore. Nothing in the directions to do so. I put the barrel back into the stock before bed last night and this morning I resumed work on the stock and the underside of the barrel had a haze of rust starting to form. So I'm taking a stab in the dark here by saying that maybe not enough iron got dissolved in the acid and that led to a weaker staining therefore resulting in the haze of rust I found this morning?

well then, get the barrel back into shape, and if you feel it necessary you can neutralize with ammonia once you've finished all your FN staining.

dave

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Ammonia will rust your nice fresh white steel too!

It may be that you are looking for something that doesn't exist.  Have a look at all those lovely longrifles in the Moravian Gunmakers book.  None of them are red...all shades of brown.
I have had a couple of experiences using tannic acid:  the first turned the stock jety black, and it was difficult to get it back to brown.  The second, and last to date, turned the stock a very pleasing colour with good curl definition, and some reddish undertones.  Good stock wood does not grow on trees!

I avoid alcohol based stains now, because they wear so poorly and fade in sunlight.  AF is immortal.  Tannic acid applied first is the ticket.  Love the results so far.