36 cal loads?

[Bigmon]

I know I asked this back in May or June, but I cannot seem to find it?
I started shooting in this 36 cal rifle today and cant seem to get it in a consistant group.
It is a 36 cal 42" lg Green Mt barrel flinter.
I been using .350 balls and .018 pillow ticking with bore butter and it feels reel good loading.
It'l put two in the bull and then two more not, then back in??
I have been using anywhere fro 30 gr to 45 gr FFFG powder and it dont seem to much matter?
Any idears??
Thanks

[rich pierce]

I'm no expert but always read patches. What are you seeing there?

[Mike payne]

I have rifle that was built for me 40 years ago. It is a 36 cal Douglas 1in 66 twist 42" barrel it has always liked  30 grains 3f snug lenin patch ( don't know the thickness) and 350 ball. At 50 yds off a rest it will shoot a 2" group if I don't screw it up.

Mike

[smallpatch]

Not sure how an example of someone else's barrel might help,  yours is yours.
Like Rich said, read your patches.  I'd say you'll find some shredding going on. Shoot a few, and pick them up.  You should be able to reuse them.

[Standing Bear]

Try 40-50 gr FFg, a .355 ball and denim patch wet w saliva cut at the muzzle. Works in my .36 cal 42” GM flinter.
TC

[smylee grouch]

I think your just going to have to try many different combos and keep track. Only change one factor at a time and shoot enough shots of each so you get a good sample.

[Mike Brooks]

I'm shooting 45gr 3fff in my .36 at the moment. Of course I can't see the sights so I can't tell if it shoots good with this load or not....

[Bigmon]

well, to tell the truth, I can't see my sights much any more either.  And that is probably some of the trouble.
I guess what I should of asked is if anyone knows the twist in a 42" 36 cal GM barrel?
I have found that the rate of twist will usually help determine the amount of powder needed.
Problem is I might have forgotten if fast twist wants more or less powder?
But that's ok, once I know the twist I can figure it out.
The 36cal is too small to use my bore light.
Thanks to all

[smylee grouch]

I think GM 36 cal. barrels were 1-48.

[Bob Roller]

WHAT is the bore diameter across the lands? Look at the muzzle and see if
there is a "star burst" corresponding to the number of grooves.If it's an
irregular pattern then no amount of load/patch/ball.powder charge adjustment will help.
The "cure" is to have someone with a lathe to correct the muzzle and recrown
it.
Bob Roller

[Ky-Flinter]

I think GM 36 cal. barrels were 1-48.

Correct.....

Green Mountain Muzzle Loading Rifle Barrels, Cut Rifling Specifications:
Each barrel has eight lands and grooves.
Grooves cut .010 to .012" deep, depending on caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 48 inches for .32 caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 48 inches for .36 caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 56 inches for .40 caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 60 inches for .45 caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 70 inches for .50 caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 70 inches for .54 caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 70 inches for .58 caliber.

[Ky-Flinter]

well, to tell the truth, I can't see my sights much any more either.  And that is probably some of the trouble.

Bigmon,

Do you wear glasses?  Cut a small square of electrical tape and poke a small round hole in the center, then stick it on your glasses where you can look thru the hole and see your sights.  Should help with the focus problem.

-Ron

[PPatch]

well, to tell the truth, I can't see my sights much any more either.  And that is probably some of the trouble.

Bigmon,

Do you wear glasses?  Cut a small square of electrical tape and poke a small round hole in the center, then stick it on your glasses where you can look thru the hole and see your sights.  Should help with the focus problem.

-Ron

Right Ron, Bigmon - the tap trick helps tremendously.



dave

[rich pierce]

I use a black button with tape over all holes but one. Tape that to my glasses. It’s a nice smooth hole, less fuzzy.

[smylee grouch]

I might be wrong but I thought that GM 40 cal. barrels were 1-48 for the straight sided and 1-56 for their swamped. Maybe they went to 1-56 for all 40s.

[Daryl]

I think GM 36 cal. barrels were 1-48.

Correct.....

Green Mountain Muzzle Loading Rifle Barrels, Cut Rifling Specifications:
Each barrel has eight lands and grooves.
Grooves cut .010 to .012" deep, depending on caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 48 inches for .32 caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 48 inches for .36 caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 56 inches for .40 caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 60 inches for .45 caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 70 inches for .50 caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 70 inches for .54 caliber.
Twist is 1 turn in 70 inches for .58 caliber.

I am not aware of GM making any changes to this list.

Your patches will tell a tale of whether or not they are good enough. After that, it is experimentation, differing powder charges or very a different cloth weave and/or thickness.

For example, all of my rifles shoot best with a certain patch, except for one, the big one, the .69.  Recovered patches look perfect and are re-usable, however, it prefers a .030" patch, to that .0235" mattress ticking that the other shoot so well.  Mind you, it shoots well with the thinner patches with LIGHT loads, but demands the thicker patches for heavy loads- due, primarily I assume, to the higher breech pressures.

Suggestion about using black tape with a hole for sticking on your glasses. Taylor found using a heated needle or pin to melt a hole, made a perfect hole every time.

[Bigmon]

thanks for all the info.
My glasses are the tripe focal type.
Hard to get used to.
Top is for long distance but sights are close.
Not sure what to do.
Maybe have to just quit shooting?

[Hungry Horse]

How old is your patch material? Cotton degrades with time. .36 cal. Balls create a lot of concentrated pressure when loading, because of their small diameter. If the cloth has degraded with time, or sun exposure, the patch will start to separate as it pushed down the bore. Denim, or pocket drill, are tightly woven, and take more pressure without coming apart. Linen is the best patching IMO, because it is rot resistant.
 Your optometrist can most likely get you glasses that will greatly help your shooting. Most can’t be bothered. At that point I vote with my feet. I found one that lets me bring my longrifle right into the office, so he is sure to get it right.

  Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

thanks for all the info.
My glasses are the tripe focal type.
Hard to get used to.
Top is for long distance but sights are close.
Not sure what to do.
Maybe have to just quit shooting?

I-too have trouble seeing the sights now, so I ordered and purchased a pair of .75 Diopter 'readers' from the optomitrist's shop.  I tried .25 and .50, but the .75's are the best, even though the 'target' is really fuzzy. Odd (but good) thing about fuzzy targets, the centre of the fuzziness, is the hard part & that is much easier to hit when you can see the sights.

Most drug stores, etc, only have reading glasses down to 1.25 diopter.

Taylor has also been using  .75 Dipopter readers. After he gets his new eye-ball lens, the Eye Surgeon says 20:20 vision in that eye.

[Bigmon]

Thanks as always guys.
As for the patching material, I am using ..018 pillow ticking that I got from TOW.
I cit them to 1" Doa myself and apply wonderlub 1000.
Takes a smack on the short srarter to get it going but then goes down nice and feels good, just tight enough.
Was trying spit patches but just wasnt snug enough.
I do have some thinner patching .015 and some .360 balls I am gonna try next time I can make time.
Gonna look into those glasses also.
Regards to all

[Hungry Horse]

That smack you’re giving it may be compromising your pillow ticking. Modern pillow ticking is not as tightly woven as it was in the past. That plus a little age, and, or sunlight, and you get blown patches.
 My glasses are trifocals with modified computer midrange. This allows you to see your sights clearer.
 Now if your still using the old “California patridge” style sight with the deep square notch, and the big old square front sight, these won’t help. This type of sight requires you to balance the light on each side of the front sight. That horse  has left the barn for most of us over sixty.

  Hungry Horse

[rich pierce]

Great explanation on why the sight type that was great for me in the past does not work now. That horse is in the next county and isn’t coming back.

[smylee grouch]

Your short starter might be pinching the patch when you give it that smack and causing a week spot in your loading method as has been said. You wont see it but your recovered patches might give you a clue as to whats going on.

[hanshi]

The .36 in my stable is barreled with a 38" tube.  Since I think of the .32 & .36 as small game rifles, "light" loads are all I shoot; doesn't take much to kill a squirrel.  My eyes are near as worthless as many of you seemingly have to endure.  Thirty grains of 3F has always given tiny, sub 1" groups at up to 50 yards.  But I can't see well enough to shoot and tell a difference whether I load 30 grains or 20 grains.  So, at least in the .36 I like 20 grains.  I lube with either TOW mink oil or Hoppes #9 BP lube; both give great accuracy.  I use patches from .020" Mattress  ticking to .022" - really tight weave, too - cotton canvas duck and denim .024" which is also very tight weave.  I'm beginning to really like the cotton duck for rifles.

[Bigmon]

You al are great help.
Sorry I didn't answer the previous questions.
My ticking is just purchase from TOW.  Afore that, I dont know the age but it seems fine.
I had my wife wash it a couple times.
When I look at a fired parch I can see no problems.
It does seem to shoot as well with 30 gr as 45gr.
I havn't went beyond those in either direction.
I made me a deer antler measure yesterday and all the bigger I could get it was 35 gr max.  I know it's stupid but I figure thats what I'm gonna go with fer now.

As for the front site, that's another stupid subject.  One of my main reasons for liking the guns is the way they look and if I don't like the look of the sights I ait't happy.
So yes, it's got a small little front site.  And brass, and that's another problem, gonna have to get me a steel one the same or real close.  Shines like a darned light bulb in the brite sun.
Attached are a couple pics of the sights.  Of course the front sight has been filed way down to elevation.  There is now about 2/16" or so.
The rear site I have made the notch into a V.
But it is pretty deep.  I might lower the site in order to make the V less deep.?