Engraving question

[jerrywh]

 Cool. Good job Rich.

[Jeff Stewart]

Great question, Rich.  Another intriguing clue is the difference in thickness of the lines at the bottom of the cock.

Kudos on your double line experiment.

jeff

[smart dog]

Hi Ron,
Deepening and adding wide and narrow highlights to an existing cut line is skill often needed.  Your tool has to be very sharp to remain in the line and you have to be able to see the tip clearly.  That was always my trouble early on.  I could not get lighting or magnification that allowed me to see the tip of my tool clearly all the time. My current magnifying visor has pretty bright LED lights that help a lot and when I cannot quite see the way I desire using a hammer and chisel, I developed a method in which I tap the chisel toward me as I cut so I can see the front of the tool clearly.  When I use my Lindsay Airgraver for detail work, I can huddle over the tool and see my cuts well but I often cut my main lines with hammer and chisel to assure a vintage look.

dave   

[Mike Brooks]

I did, as posted above, and it works in the hands of a rank amateur (me, both rank and amateur), about as well as one could expect with a quickly crafted, O1 steel graver on the first try.  I made 2 gravers; one with close parallel lines and another more widely spaced.

pretty dad gummed cool Rich. Thanks for taking the time to do this and report back. years ago I bought a multi line shader that probably cut 5-6 lines all at once. I wasn't very good with it, couldn't figure out how to sharpen it correctly. Don't know what happened to it, haven't seen it for years....

[Ky-Flinter]

Thanks Dave.  I very much appreciate the reply.  I'm going to give the "tap toward me" method a try. 

-Ron

[Mike Brooks]

There's lots of the big guys using microscopes for engraving these days, which great for euro and English work but sort of over does it for colonial American work.  Also, Schippers "taps towards" him. He also uses his right  hand to hold the graver and hammers with his left, he's right handed. I tried his method, I can't hit the blasted tool with the hammer in my left hand....stupid left hand.....

[BOB HILL]

Rich, thanks for posting this information. Very interesting. I may just have to make one of these gravers.     Bob

[deepcreekdale]

Question for some of the more experienced engravers here. Aren't liners used for shading, not for cutting parallel lines? I have a couple of old double line engravers, I have no idea how old they are or what they were intended for (picked them up at a flea market), but the tips are wider apart than you would use for shading, more like what you see on this lock. Like I said, I have never mastered them, I cut two separate lines when doing borders as that is what appears to be the method used on colonial work and as Jim said, it is not that hard to do. My friend, who is a master engraver and is a member of the Firearms Engravers Guild, usually cuts parallel lines individually also but on occasion uses a double line graver for special applications. I know he makes a lot of his graving tools to fit certain uses, I have no idea if he made his double line gravers. Of course he does all his work under a microscope as he only works on modern stuff. Some of his work is so small, I can barely even see it with my #7 optivisors. I still vote for a double line graver on this lock after carefully studying enlargements of this picture, but I certainly defer to those with more knowledge. 

[rich pierce]

Keep seeing evidence that double line engravers were used on lock borders in percussion era.  Look at the crossover in the upper right.

[Acer Saccharum]

I agree with the assessment that this particular lock had a double line tool, looking at the tail crossovers. It's possible that a single line was cut, then followed with a double line.

And Jerry is correct about cutting parallel lines, it's simple to someone who does it all day long.

On Rich's original posting, the tail crossovers are a clue that is hard to explain other than a double tool. Very cool experiment, Rich. You're entering a dark and exciting world by making your own tools.

[jerrywh]

 Liners are not used exclusively for shading. I as well as other engravers use them for excavating at times. For example, when excavating for a barrel band a regular flat graver will tend to slide sideways and ruin the sides of the cavity. The solution to this is to use a liner with a curved belly. The lines in the liner prevent it from sliding sideways. the same goes for any place where you do not want the graver to slide sideways.   The use of liners to shade on gun engraving is considered a sign of cheap work and is almost never seen by the best gun engravers.

[BOB HILL]

Rich this is a great thread. Thanks. Jerry, thanks for the tip on using the liner for excavating. This is great.     Bob

[Jim Kibler]

While I see the arguement for a double cutter based on the crossing lines, I'm not sure it necessarily proves it's use.  The same result can be made with a single point cutter.

You may be entirely correct with the use of the double cutter.  I'm just saying, I'm not sure.  As has been suggested previously, maybe they liked the crossing lines?

Jim

[rich pierce]

Many things from the past cannot be proven. I think we can say it’s plausible based on what we see and technically possible.

[smart dog]

Hi,
I think a double line cutter is how that last lock was done and it could be that it was popular because of difficulties finding skilled engravers to do that work.  If I recall, during the 19th century engravers could make a lot more money doing copperplate engraving, especially for lithographers and printers.  Hammer and chisel engravers to the gun trade became more scarce so any trick that made it easier for simple work may have been popular.  I personally much prefer the look of a thick and thin border. Perhaps a double liner could be made to do that as well.  Also note on that last lock that the lines converge a little going around the nose of the lock plate.  I suspect the engraver cut that section with single lines.

dave

[Jim Kibler]

Rich,

Your explanation makes sense.  Interesting that the lines do become closer together at the tip.  Hmmmmm....

Jim

[Ky-Flinter]

Assuming the lines on this last lock were cut with a double line cutter, as the engraver angled the tool to make the round cuts at the nose of the lock, the 2 lines would come closer together due to the angle of the cutter, than when cutting the straight sections. 

-Ron

[James Rogers]

Hi Dave,
I have seen some early English guns that looked very much to me like some of thw work was done with a thick/thin double line. I have also seen in the same period guns that were clearly cut one at a time.