Author Topic: What the heck is it?  (Read 10132 times)

Offline Don Stith

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Re: What the heck is it?
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2017, 03:34:46 AM »
Nobody has commented that the forward lock panel doesn’t fit the bar lock. Could you show the inside of the lock mortise? I think it will indicate that this is a replacement lock, opening more speculation as to what the original lock was.

Bill Paton
Bill is right  This style lock normally has the panel at front of lock finished as a vertical line rather than curved as used on this one  I am going to guess this guy just did not know that detail.  Not real sure the stock and lock is as old as the barrel,  and other hardware.  Don't know how to prove one way or the other

LarDog

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Re: What the heck is it?
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2017, 04:12:12 PM »
I've been searching images of "London Warranted" locks and haven't been able to locate any that are similar. Any help?

Offline Don Stith

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Re: What the heck is it?
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2017, 04:22:30 PM »
Don't want to take over this thread.  Too many other good opinions needed  London Warrented is common marking on imported  hardware store locks found all over the US in the1820's thru 1840's
 There was even a drawer of them in a store in St Louis that went out of business in the 1950's

LarDog

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Re: What the heck is it?
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2017, 01:50:19 AM »
Any chance you could direct me to some photos? I've found a few of flint locks, but percussions seem to be mighty scarce.

oakridge

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Re: What the heck is it?
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2017, 02:23:04 AM »
Any chance you could direct me to some photos? I've found a few of flint locks, but percussions seem to be mighty scarce.

I've seen several percussion locks so marked. I have one rifle with a back-action lock marked "London Warranted". It's an 1840s gun.

Offline Bill Paton

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Re: What the heck is it?
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2017, 02:52:41 AM »
LarDog,

It is hard to be definitive about these things through photos (and often even with the piece of history in hand), but I think the lock was probably put in the stock as an “upgrade” years ago, possibly in the time of use (likely not later than the very early 20th century).  The extra wood cut out for the replacement bar lock looks old (although that can be faked). A photo of the lock mortise beside the back side of the lock might give an indication of recesses in the mortise that were not needed with the new lock, further supporting the idea of a lock replacement. A common reason for replacement would have been to convert from flint to percussion ignition.

The single lock plate screw was sometimes used in flint locks late in their period of use, so the gun could have been made as a late flintlock, but no way to prove it.

Sometimes New England rifles were made with wood ribs under the barrel to hold the ramrod pipes. Yours appears to be metal, but hard to tell from photos. If wood, it is another strong point for New England origin, along with the patch box with a round motif on the finial and no side plates.

Anyway, I like the gun and its mysterious history. Thanks for your ongoing contributions to this thread. Sleuthing out the history of the changing lives of these guns is part of the fun, and changes done during the useful lives add interest In my view.

And Don Stith: Your valuable contributions are in no way “hijacking the thread”. Thanks for the comments.

Bill Paton



Kentucky double rifle student
wapaton.sr@gmail.com

LarDog

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Re: What the heck is it?
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2017, 04:08:36 AM »
Finally found a couple of locks that have similar features, though not exact. Both are marked "London Warranted". Only ones I found that were even close.  The hammer seems to be quite different on mine.  Can't express how much I appreciate your willingness to help with my "mystery". 
Bill, I'll post a shot of the back of the lock in the morning. Great idea. Thanks for the suggestion.






upload photo to internet
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 05:07:17 AM by LarDog »

LarDog

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Re: What the heck is it?
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2017, 04:12:31 AM »
Here are the photos. I shot the back side of the lock, and flipped it so that it reads the same direction as the cavity.  Tried a little transparency too.  That help?








Offline Don Stith

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Re: What the heck is it?
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2017, 04:35:36 AM »
Wow I am impressed. Would love to have your photo skills.  Looks like the only lock that has been in that stock to me

 Bill Paton is a skilled photographer.  Maybe he will see something I don't

LarDog

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Re: What the heck is it?
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2017, 05:09:25 AM »
I noticed a couple of extra holes (small) near the front of the lock plate. Any idea what they might have been for? Didn't see them on either of the similar locks pictured above.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 05:10:43 AM by LarDog »

Offline Bill Paton

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Re: What the heck is it?
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2017, 07:54:31 AM »
Very nice display, LarDog! Don is kind, but you have me beat in the photoshop for sure!

I don’t see any indication of another lock having been in that gun either, as Don said. The two extra holes in the front of the lock probably indicate the mainspring has been replaced (maybe twice, maybe unskillfully). The rivet  seen on the outside of the lock in the middle of the engraving looks like an add-on to secure the replacement mainspring, otherwise it would likely be incorporated into the engraving, or engraved over.

The mismatch of the stock’s lock panel and bar lock's plate is a mystery in light of the opinion that the lock is probably not a replacement.

I now think it is a New England made original percussion rifle, and a neat gun to have. I assume the under-rib is metal, and not classical New England wood.

Thanks for the very fine photoshopping that really helps to illustrate the nuances of your interesting piece.

Bill Paton
Kentucky double rifle student
wapaton.sr@gmail.com