Inletting the tang

[Justin]

I didn’t look closely enough it seems. Using a rectangular plug, replace and build up,a rectangular area that will encompass whatever dip or hollow that will remain.

But first get the tang to the correct profile and re-assess if you have a significant low spot or dig-out in the tang inlet that does not support the tang at all. Obviously this would be an area with no black and clearly low.

OK but you're saying do this all within the existing tang mortise I have already cut, right? Not replace the entire mortise with a new block of wood and re-inlet the entire thing. Correct?

[Justin]

I'm worried about messing up that plug attempt even worse so right now, my mind is leaning toward using acraglas to fill in any void under the tang.

I'm sure that's sacrilege to some traditionalists but this will be my personal hunting gun so I am not too worried about people looking under the covers, so to speak. Now the next build (the one with no mistakes ) will not use that

[rich pierce]

I didn’t look closely enough it seems. Using a rectangular plug, replace and build up,a rectangular area that will encompass whatever dip or hollow that will remain.

But first get the tang to the correct profile and re-assess if you have a significant low spot or dig-out in the tang inlet that does not support the tang at all. Obviously this would be an area with no black and clearly low.

OK but you're saying do this all within the existing tang mortise I have already cut, right? Not replace the entire mortise with a new block of wood and re-inlet the entire thing. Correct?

Correctamundo. Sorry for earlier confusion.

[n stephenson]

Justin, Yes stay within the mortice you have, NOT the last pink overlay you have shown. As I stated earlier , straighten out the tang to match your wrist, use a piece of wood as stated earlier by others , to fill your over cut. Nate

[Justin]

Thanks guys. Assuming I want to try it, how do you recommend getting a thin sliver of wood to replace that lost wood? I have a chunk of maple (I think) that the rifle stock came shipped with (it was taped to it). However, I'm not sure how I can get a thin sliver cut from it.

[smylee grouch]

I use a knife and cut with the grain when I do that job and I've done it many times. 

[smallpatch]

Like smylee said, or use a drawknife or plane.  It may take more than one shaving.

Please slow down.  You know the old adage, measure twice, cut once. 
I know you're eager to cut wood, but better to have the preliminary work done first.  It's actually faster in the long run.  Look how much time you've wasted on repairs, and you're just getting started.
Plus, you'll end up with a much nicer finished product, that you'll be glad to show others.

[Justin]

Like smylee said, or use a drawknife or plane.  It may take more than one shaving.

Please slow down.  You know the old adage, measure twice, cut once. 
I know you're eager to cut wood, but better to have the preliminary work done first.  It's actually faster in the long run.  Look how much time you've wasted on repairs, and you're just getting started.
Plus, you'll end up with a much nicer finished product, that you'll be glad to show others.

I don't think it's an issue of speed -- I feel like I'm moving at a snails pace when working on my inlets. I should have just left the tang bent the way I had it originally but some folks convinced me that the hump I had was not right. I'm not intending to blaming anyone -- part of the learning process here appears to involve learning who to listen to and when (like every topic you ask for advice online ).

Anyway, Jim Chambers gave me the same advice about putting in a sliver of wood and gluing but he can be a little slow to respond so I asked folks here too. I also figure it may be helpful for other folks just getting started to learn from. I think I got a decent sliver of wood cut and glued in there last night. Now to wait 24 hours and see how well it held.

I will say one somewhat tricky part was getting the sliver of wood thin enough so that it would bend with the curve in the tang inlet but still be thick enough to make up for the removed wood. I ended up cutting the sliver in a tapered manner that was thicker near the tail end where I had removed the most extra wood. Then the end closer to the breach was tapered thinner so it would just barely bend with the shape of the inlet. I'm curious to see how it holds when I start to shave it down when I come back to it (which will likely be tomorrow evening since I only got to this at 10pm last night so it won't have the 24 hours of drying time [slow down, right? ])

For posterity and potentially the amusement (or education) of others...

I had to make small blocks of poplar to clamp the maple sliver down


Another view of clamps:


Better angle on the tang:

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

If in that last pic your barrel is all the way down, it looks like you are good to go.  One thing you will discover when you dress off the metal of the tang that is above the wrist...because of the draft in the sides of the tang, you will have a very slight 'swamp' along the edges of the tang when the wood and steel are level.  And that's ok...just don't be surprised when you see it.

[Justin]

If in that last pic your barrel is all the way down, it looks like you are good to go.  One thing you will discover when you dress off the metal of the tang that is above the wrist...because of the draft in the sides of the tang, you will have a very slight 'swamp' along the edges of the tang when the wood and steel are level.  And that's ok...just don't be surprised when you see it.

Ah, good point. Yes, the barrel is all the way down there.

Thanks.

[Chowmi]

Good on ya' Justin,  you will be happy you fixed it!

Norm

[Justin]

Repair laid, tang inlet, and bend filed. Wood screw is just temporary:


I filed it a little more after this picture but still you can see it seems pretty decent to me:

[Kingsburyarms]

Better!!!! - 

[n stephenson]

Justin, Looks MUCH better! If you had simply filed off the hump , you would have ended up with a thin spot in the middle of your tang, ask how I know . You can fill the tiny gaps with some stained or dyed filler of your choice. You have the tang following your wrist curvature nicely .  Good Job!  Nate

[Chowmi]

Nice!  Looks much much better. 

Slightly off topic, but I seem to remember that you asked about draw filing the barrel in another post.  Look at your last picture there and you can see the milling marks running the length of the barrel flat.  Those are the milling marks we were talking about. 

Norm

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

That looks much much better Justin...good recovery.

Now I see two things which I feel are important to comment on:  first, you missed the centre of your tang by about 1/16"!!  It's not the end of the world, but it's a noticeable mistake.  You may be able to fix it by using a chair saw file to move the hole over to centre, and then drilling it out for a larger tang screw, such as a 10 x 32 rather than an 8 x 32.  After moving the hole larerally to the centre, and drilling with a #10 drill for clearance, re-countersink for the head.
Or leave it as is, and move on.
Second:  the line you have drawn on the off side of the stock, presumably to get the angle of the tang screw must be at 90 degrees to the tangent of the tang's curve.  This is important as it will ensure that the countersunk head of the tang screw has no gaps after it is filed flush with the tang. 
And the tang screw must enter and exit the trigger plate in the correct place too.  So before you drill and tap the trigger plate, make sure that that tang goes through the stock at the correct angle.  You may have to plug that wood screw hole with a tapered maple peg glued into the existing hole.  If I am wrong, and everything is lined up correctly, disregard this note.
Your tang does look good now though.

[ltdann]

I've had some luck fixing in mis-drilled holes by welding them shut, refiling them, and then re-drilling.  Can't even tell.

[Justin]

That looks much much better Justin...good recovery.

Now I see two things which I feel are important to comment on:  first, you missed the centre of your tang by about 1/16"!!  It's not the end of the world, but it's a noticeable mistake.  You may be able to fix it by using a chair saw file to move the hole over to centre, and then drilling it out for a larger tang screw, such as a 10 x 32 rather than an 8 x 32.  After moving the hole larerally to the centre, and drilling with a #10 drill for clearance, re-countersink for the head.
Or leave it as is, and move on.
Second:  the line you have drawn on the off side of the stock, presumably to get the angle of the tang screw must be at 90 degrees to the tangent of the tang's curve.  This is important as it will ensure that the countersunk head of the tang screw has no gaps after it is filed flush with the tang. 
And the tang screw must enter and exit the trigger plate in the correct place too.  So before you drill and tap the trigger plate, make sure that that tang goes through the stock at the correct angle.  You may have to plug that wood screw hole with a tapered maple peg glued into the existing hole.  If I am wrong, and everything is lined up correctly, disregard this note.
Your tang does look good now though.

Hmmm -- I did not notice the off-center screw. I know I had the hole marked with a center punch dead in the middle. I wonder if the drill wandered on me when I was drilling it. I also had a little trouble with the countersink so I wonder if it got messed up there. I think it may be the counter sinking is just off... I'll take another look tonight.

You're right about that line I drew on the side. It's tough to draw that line well due to the curvature of the wrist there but yes, I do intend to get the bolt perpendicular to the wrist angle there.

Thanks!

[Justin]

I've had some luck fixing in mis-drilled holes by welding them shut, refiling them, and then re-drilling.  Can't even tell.

I don't have any welding equipment :|

[Justin]

Question: Should the bolt head ultimately sink below the surface of the tang or should it be above the surface?

I'm betting I can fix the crooked countersink but not having the rifle in front of me right now, I'm not sure if I can avoid making it a little wider than the bolt head...

[ltdann]

I've had some luck fixing in mis-drilled holes by welding them shut, refiling them, and then re-drilling.  Can't even tell.

I don't have any welding equipment :|

Not a problem, I'm sure that there's a welding shop in town, probably charge you $5 to do that, it takes all of 30 seconds or so.  If you do go that route, make sure they use mild steel, rod or wire. 

I had to do that on a trigger plate when I grabbed the wrong size drill bit for the tang bolt I was using.  Filed it flush, can't even tell.

[Justin]

I've had some luck fixing in mis-drilled holes by welding them shut, refiling them, and then re-drilling.  Can't even tell.

I don't have any welding equipment :|

Not a problem, I'm sure that there's a welding shop in town, probably charge you $5 to do that, it takes all of 30 seconds or so.  If you do go that route, make sure they use mild steel, rod or wire. 

I had to do that on a trigger plate when I grabbed the wrong size drill bit for the tang bolt I was using.  Filed it flush, can't even tell.

Ah, good to know. I'll do some searching. Thanks for the tip.

[Kingsburyarms]

Question: Should the bolt head ultimately sink below the surface of the tang or should it be above the surface?

The edge of the bolt head touches the edge of the Tang - with a rounded bolt head, looking from the side of the rifle, you will see the rounded part of the bolt above the tang.

Question for you, do you have a drill press? - or availability to one?

[Justin]

Question: Should the bolt head ultimately sink below the surface of the tang or should it be above the surface?

The edge of the bolt head touches the edge of the Tang - with a rounded bolt head, looking from the side of the rifle, you will see the rounded part of the bolt above the tang.

Question for you, do you have a drill press? - or availability to one?

Great. Thanks!

Yes, I have a small bench top drill press. I did use it to drill the hole through the tang which is why I am surprised it is off... However, when I was doing the countersinking, I had a little trouble with it so I switched to using my hand drill and I'm betting I wasn't pushing on it straight or something. I have to check it out when I get home because I was pretty confident the initial hole was dead on my mark.

BTW, found a local welder to patch another mistake... haha

[Mr. Bubbles]

If you try to bend the tang with that inside radius squared off like that you run in to a real danger of breaking off the top of the tang from the plug. Particularly cold bending.   Been there done that.  That's why inside corners are rounded.  Just get a good contact back as far as you can, and then bed it with your goopy compound.  File off the extra metal.   As was said before it's way thicker  than it needs to be for strength.  A lot of times those tangs can be really tough to bend without using heat and a more directed bending force, like a hammer.

What sort of a gun is this supposed to be (in about a year from now) anyway?  If you're doing the gun from a pre-carve those webs are notoriously thick to begin with.  A lot of styles really don't quite look right unless the web at the breech is super duper thin, like < 1/16".

Your drill bit "walked" on you.  In order to get holes to go in where you planned on them being, use a scribe.  Once down the middle, and then across the other way.  Run your punch down it.  Where the lines intersect the point of the punch will sort of "stick"  Go ahead and wang it with a hammer now.  Drill your pilot hole with a small bit, like 1/16".  Then maybe another hole before you get to final diameter.

Using a drill press vice with an adjustable X-Y axis on it is also a big help.