Cost of Shooting

[northmn]

 Just for grins I ran a spreadsheet of costs per shot of various calibers and charges.  While the combinations would be astronomical I ran it for ball size and powder charge.  I assumed that priming would cost the same regardless of caliber and realize that you can use musket caps and that musket flintlocks would hold more priming.  If you want figure that as extra.  I also declined from figuring in patch costs.  While I could I doubt if the cost would vary that much.  I used Swiss and GOEX for powder and figured the cost of purchased ball out of Track.  They are admittedly approximations but may say something.  I used a step up system as some ball were priced the same.  Price per shot by adding cost per ball to powder charge.
                                                                   $25        $15
Ball Size Price per Ball   charge Gr's               Swiss     GOEX
.283                 .08               15                     .05          .03
.380                 .10               20                     .07          .05
.445                 .11               25                     .09          .06
.490                 .13               30                     .10          .07
.530                 .14               35                     .12          .09
.562                 .18               40                     .14          .09
.570                 .21               45                     .15          .10
.600                 .33               50                     .17          .11
.695                 .44               55                     .19          .13
Above 695                           60                     .21          .14
Same price                           65                     .22          .15
                                            70                     .24          .16
                                            75                     .26          .17
                                            80                     .28          .18

A 50 using a 495 ball and 80 grains of Swiss would cost .13 for the ball from 490 and above to 530 and with 80 grains of Swiss at .28 it would come in at $.41 per shot.   A 58 using a 575 ball at .21 and a charge of 140 Swiss at .48 (70 @ .24 Doubled)  Costs $.69 per shot.
Some talk about the economy of smaller bores so I used this to get a feel for it.

DP

   

[BrownBear]

In recognition that within 50 yards about the only differences between heavy and light charges are noise and recoil, we're doing almost all our range shooting with our small game light loads.  Those are 20 grains in 32, 25 grains in 36, 35 grains in both 50 and 54, and 40 grains in 58.  We also recover and recast all our balls.  Sure there's energy cost for the recasting, but that's no different than casting from new lead.  I don't know if energy figures into your ball costs, but if not, our balls are free. 

Using your #'s, that means we're spending .05 for the 32, .06 for the 36, .09 for both the 50 and 54, and .09 as well for the 58.  I agree that patch costs are negligible because we cut our own from ticking and make rather than buy our lube.  Sure we'll pump up the loads for big game hunting, but that's a pretty minimal quantity of shots compared to small game and range shooting.  Therefore we're spending roughly half (.05 vs .09) to shoot our small bores.

[Roger Fisher]

In recognition that within 50 yards about the only differences between heavy and light charges are noise and recoil, we're doing almost all our range shooting with our small game light loads.  Those are 20 grains in 32, 25 grains in 36, 35 grains in both 50 and 54, and 40 grains in 58.  We also recover and recast all our balls.  Sure there's energy cost for the recasting, but that's no different than casting from new lead.  I don't know if energy figures into your ball costs, but if not, our balls are free. 

Using your #'s, that means we're spending .05 for the 32, .06 for the 36, .09 for both the 50 and 54, and .09 as well for the 58.  I agree that patch costs are negligible because we cut our own from ticking and make rather than buy our lube.  Sure we'll pump up the loads for big game hunting, but that's a pretty minimal quantity of shots compared to small game and range shooting.  Therefore we're spending roughly half (.05 vs .09) to shoot our small bores.

So you recover your shot lead and it sounds as though this is done at a club range?  I assume you dig down into your earthen embankments in line with your target holders.  Do you find most of the lead has washed or worked its way to the bottom of the dirt bank or at any height??  How deep into the embankment??
Our range must have a slew of such lead in the bank!!

[BrownBear]

Relax Roger.  It's perfectly simple.

Here is a discussion of of our techniques along with photos of the gear and results.

[Daryl]

Cool!  With GOEX at your price of $15.00 per pound ($36.00 locally), my cost per shot form the .69 would be $0.36 per shot with GOEX and about $0.50 for Swiss(which we've never seen). The Swiss was reduced to 2x70gr. due to higher speeds per gr.
; My .40 runs $0.22 for Swiss and $0.15 for GOEX - at $15.00 per pound, that is.

[northmn]

I got the prices out of the Track of the Wolf Catalog.  I just got a shipment of powder from Grafs which was 5 pounds for $82 total or a little more.  That included the Hazmat fee.  GOEX locally is about $18.00 per pound.  Again I used the price of purchase of round ball Track had hand cast and Hornady.  I pretty much used an average.  I knew someone would mention getting free lead which is fine.  I just though it would be interesting.  One thing when we talk about economy is that many shoot big bores but may only shoot medium bore charges.  Some claim good luck with say a 58 and 80 grains of powder or with GOEX about 40 cents a shot.  The math is simple for powder.  7000 grains divided by the charge, then divide the cost of a pound  of powder by that number. 

DP

[roundball]

And strictly from a cost point of view as I mentioned in an earlier post or two, if a lot of shooting is done at 25yds, and you have a .58cal or .62cal...9/16" marbles only cost a penny apiece and are as accurate at 25 yards as any thing I've ever shot.
A 50 shot range session using Hornady balls = $12-$15, but 50 marbles cost 50 cents...a .570" hole in a paper target is a .570" hole in a paper target.
Just have to get past the mental obstacle of: "you're shooting marbles"
 

[Daryl]

Interesting - Hornady balls went up to $12.95 per 100 here, from $9.95. I guess there was a reduction ($12-$15 per 50) in going across the border - nice for a change - not used to that.  I was using Hornady .445's in my .45 barrel until they went up in price. I must get a Lyman .445 mould as I hate the Lee with tangent sprue. I've both .440 and .445 in DC Lee blocks for trade stock if anyone's interested.  I'd even throw in the .443 Lee DC, just to get a set of Lyman blocks. I'll even sent $10.00 to $15.00 to sweeten the deal. Find a good set of Lymans for me and it's a trade.
: From a good rest (for even comparrison values), we've found smoothbores to be as accurate as most rifles, so it's good to hear marbles shoot as well to-boot.

[Roger Fisher]

Relax Roger.  It's perfectly simple.

Here is a discussion of of our techniques along with photos of the gear and results.

Okay I'll bite------ Where??

[Robert Wolfe]

Roger,

Click on the word "Here" in Brownbear's  response. You'll note that it is blue indicating that it is a live link.

[Roger Fisher]

Roger,

Click on the word "Here" in Brownbear's  response. You'll note that it is blue indicating that it is a live link.

Well Robert thans for helping.  I tried that got to ML Forum registered then took next step and the red notice came up that there is a problem that I'm not logged in.   Went down that road 3 times.  So, I gave up.  If we run out of lead I'll get some kids and start diggin!~!!!

[BrownBear]

Sorry, Roger.  I didn't think about the whole registration thingy.

All I'm doing is using a square 5 gallon bucket full of sand for a target holder.  Line the target side of the bucket with a piece of inner tube before putting in the sand, and tape your target directly to the bucket.  The inner tube only gets tiny holes in it as you shoot and keeps the sand from dribbling out of the bucket. 

I then use a 12" x12" garden screen I made of 1/4" mesh hardware cloth.  The frame is 1x3" scrap.  It holds about 1/3 of the bucket of sand on each pass, but you'll get most of your lead back in the first pass. 

I haven't tried anything bigger than 58 cal, but when using full charges (120 grains 2f) as close as 35 yards, the balls don't even go halfway through.  The only down side is with 32 and 36 cal unless you have good clean gravel with no pebbles in it.  They tend to disintigrate when they hit gravel.

I just came back from a session with a 50 cal a few minutes ago.  Twenty shots only recovered 19 balls, though.  No idea where  #20 went.  I guess it could have been broken up by another ball or simply mushed together with another one.  In fact one looks quite a bit larger than the others, so maybe that's it.

I've only been doing this a short while, but I've already recovered a little over 20 pounds of lead.  It's enough that all my shooting pards have raided my pile of square buckets.  Turns out I'm the only one in the neighborhood with a cat and a ready supply of kitty litter buckets.

If we had a muzzleloader-only range here, I'd be right out there with my 3'x3' garden screen for some serious backstop mining.  I bet you're right about the hundreds of pounds lurking.

Come to think of it, in a couple of biographies of Daniel Boone I read reference to shooting contests in which the winner got the right to mine the backstop for lead.  If I recall correctly, the bio's cite one shoot in which Dan'l and his brothers made a real haul on lead.

BTW-  I've been calling the bucket setup an R2B2 because it's a second variation of a setup suggested by RoundBall (RB) on that other forum.  It works so well he should patent the idea!

[roundball]

I didn't have any cats, so the next most logical thing I had available were 5 gallon buckets...and then you improved on the idea with the use of the piece of inner tube across the opening instead of a piece of cardboard 

[BPB]

 I stopped calculating my cost to shoot some years back, I know the cost off the top of my head as I'm a small dealer. It still makes me ill due to all the price increases the last 3 years.

 I've 2 new rifles a .40 and .45 Vincent style but they eat about as much power as my .54.  
 I did get lucky and purchase about 200 boxes of various sized RB a few years back, enough to keep in shooting till I'm older than dirt.

 Being I'm cheap I still cast, took some of the 575 and 570 RB & minnies cast them into .440's.  

 Expensive are the new center fire shotgun slugs some of them @ $5.00 bucks each not to mention the new short action ammo...EWEWWWWWW
 BP is still inexpensive

Regards BPB

[northmn]

There is a local shooting range where I could mine lead but darn few use ML's so it likely would not pay, although I might find a few maxis or other modern ML missiles.  I started buying ball as my supply of pure lead ran out.  I will be casting for a 12 gauge but can get by with less than a pure lead supply.  Also, 12 ga ball are about $40.00 per hundred if you buy them.  They sell them by the 25.  If you have to buy lead ingots, the difference is not worth the effort of casting unless you really enjoy casting.  Also the quality of the mold, with Lee at about $20.00 and Lyman about $50 to $60 does figure in.  I have not worn out a Lee mold yet, which tells me that part of it is the volume of shooting.  You have to cast about 400 rounds average with free lead for a Lyman to break even compared to purchase.  At 800 rounds you are only doing so at half price.  In other words for a 50 cal. you are saving about $6.50 a box.  Also if you go all out a buy a lead melter you can throw in another $60-$130 into the equation.  What is your time worth?  Do you care?  I cast a lot of bullets last year and enjoyed the experience.  One may find that there are advantages to keeping a supply of lead around and various molds.  To cast or not to cast, ah that is the question?

DP

[Daryl]

Trouble with shot is that it isn't pure lead and has a fairly high arsnic content. Cast bullets or balls only outside. I would not trust a shop fan to remove all the toxins.

[Madcaster]

 It is still MUCH cheaper than the cost of illegal drugs for the ones that do them-and for the personnal price these people pay!

[Otter]

northmn,

Although I don't dispute the costs you list, I shoot for a whole bunch less. I cast my own round balls from lead I bought for $0.09 per pound, and I still have about 700# left. I buy my BP in 25# lots at about $12 per pound. I buy caps and flints in larger quantities, have bought neither for over 5 years and still have plenty of both. (The last time I bought caps, they were $1.50 per 100, so it's been a while.) I shoot 50 gr powder charge for targets 50 yards or less and up that to 75 gr for 100 yd targets and for hunting with .50 and .54. I spit patch using old 300 TPI sheets that I count as FREE. With the quantity of balls I have cast, even the cost of propane, electricity, molds and pots are spread out over tens of thousands of rounds. I count my time as therapy and figure $0 for that. I guess my RB's at less than $.02 ea, powder at $.09 per round ($.13 for hunting). caps (or flints) at $.02 per shot for a total of $.13 to $.17 per round shot. So, I can shoot a hundred rounds for $13 to $17 and it takes all day to do that. It costs less to shoot the smaller calibers. The satisfaction of a decent target . . . PRICELESS ! ! !

[William Worth]

For my back stop I shoot into square wooden cants (no elm or gum, thank you very much) with scrap cardboard for targets.  I split up the wood when it just seems appropriate and recover what I can.  That's usually when the block punches through and opens up the backside.