Barrel-to-ramrod ‘web’ thickness? French fusil

[Flint62Smoothie]

Gents:

My 1st build, an early Fusil de Chasse, albeit a custom left-handed version. Right now I have 3/32” web between the bottom of the barrel inlet to the bottom of the ramrod groove.

Should I aim for 1/16” thickness? This will allow me to trim her out even more. I can taper the ramrod in the lower forestock to breech area where I can’t otherwise get to the ramrod groove fully. Thoughts on a ‘target’ web thickness?

Right now she is just a few ounces above 7-pounds (even w/ a straight breech portion barrel) but I want her as trim as can be. I didn’t know about barrel options for a tapered breech barrel, as I bought the unbuilt kit from someone else, for $300 (less lock), who admitted a parts build was above their ability. Unfortunately I was ‘too far into it’ when I learned I really should have used a barrel that tapered in the breech.

Alas, the 1st builds teach us (... and others ...) invaluable lessons, no?

Other Details - She wears a ~44.3" barrel, whereas the entire build was done using early French pied & pouce measurements. Built to the 1727 contract to the Tulle factory; 62-caliber (20-gauge) flintlock smoothbore - picture attached, albeit a lefty version. I started with a blank (less rough barrel/ramrod cuts) of wood and even had to take a long (~6” Mike Rowe) round-faced lock and file it flat, then recut the hammer (cock) seat for the tumbler, plus facet the pan ala the French style ... as there’s a dearth of suitable RH early French locks, never mind one of the devil’s hand.

I also handmade the barleycorn front sight, not a flat feature on it anywhere, not that you can see it clearly in this photo.
 

[rich pierce]

No. 3/32” is plenty thin on any gun. Going for less complicated everything.

[54ball]

 I comepletly agree with Mr. Piearce. The web is fine.

 Honestly I would fix what I can instead of trying to overcome what I can't. To truly get the right profile for a trade gun, means a custom made barrel patterned off or at least close to an original barrel. I have a Carolina trade gun with a Colerain 20 bore fowling gun barrel. Some Indians at the fort have Carolina Guns made with custom made 24 gauge barrels copied in the original profile. There is nothing I can do to make that gun look like theirs. The barrel profile sets the shape. With that said it is still a good gun but it does not have quite the look of an original.

 Things I might do to yours.
 I might reveal more of the barrel and ramrod. (I would study my trade gun book first.)

 The comb to wrist (nose) does not look quite right....maybe a little (a hair) too abrupt. Again I would study some on that.

 It looks like the bottom line of the buttstock from the trigger guard to the toe of the butt, terminates before it reaches the toe....or there is a slight hump on the bottom of the stock before the toe of the butt.....it may be a shadow...or a simple matter of refining the shape down there some more.
Keep in mind I may be wrong as the photo is fuzzy.

It's Looking to be a great gun.

 BTW...
 Hamiltons book has pictured the remains of a Left Hand French Trade Gun found in a grave in Angora LA.

[Flint62Smoothie]

Thank you gentlemen!

I have a goodly amount of pictures of original FdCs from Ken Hamilton & Vince Spiotti, plus many examples of French arms work by Alex Efrememko.

They all are different, for example like the ‘nose’ or wrist to comb shape as pointed out. I used Alex’s work here for inspiration as they were the clearest close-ups.

REVEAL - I’ll try that ... and that should help my goal to slim her up or down. Is there any magic depth of a ramrod groove or % of ramrod to show, that I should aim for? My pictures here help, but not the point I guess I need, haha.

BUTT - I think my muddy cell phone pic/upload from an existing cell phone picture distorts the real profile, which is ‘normal’ and not stubbed. But I will most certainly give it a critical look!

NOSE - See above.

Also note I am not using info from Kevin Gladyz’s book, as those specifically were cheaper and lesser quality Fusil de Traits (read ‘trade’). I am aiming for an excellent example of an early FdC from Tulle.

Many thanks again!

[Flint62Smoothie]

Still working around the lock panel, if anyone had any other comments - good or bad - as I have to learn!

In fact it was quite a colorful exchange I had w/ Mike Brooks (on another forum) that led me to ... ahem, ‘acknowledge and & accept’ the limitations of a non-tapered breech area barrel. Boy his words were choice!

I have faceted the pan better, plus worked on the depth/reveal of the lockplate since this picture was taken. But it shows my attempt at a ~6” long early French lock.

[Mike Brooks]

I wouldn't take me too seriously.

[Flint62Smoothie]

I wouldn't take me too seriously.

I get your humor, but in this case you were 100% accurate about what it does (badly to boot) to balance and handling! So I thank you for that education.

[Mike Brooks]

Well, I'm glad that all turned out well. It really helps if you can handle some originals to get the architecture down right.

[alex e.]

One thing I might add.. the lock panel/tail carving needs some adjustments. All should terminate in the middle of the wrist,  it will be much more pleasant to the eye. If it was precarved it probably has lots of meat to redo. Every precarved stock I've done I've lost the carving for one reason or another. Even on TRS gun.
For my own preference as far as web thickness goes,3/16" usually works for me. I like to have my forestock about 3/4" from top to bottom. Sometimes showing less than 1/3 of the rr.

[Pukka Bundook]

Yes, lock panels are  important.  Bit more off the lower part below nose of lock, so the panel follows the lock and doesn't wander.
Good that you have a bit to work with in this area.  :-)
For a general build, I remember what Frank House once told me,  "Take off enough wood so's you think you've ruined it,.....Then take some more off!"

Must add there Is a limit.  :-)
Another generalization;
Many fine old arms of this period were what I call "Snake-headed"   ...wider than deep through the lock area.  some modern repros fall very flat on their face in this area.

all best,
R.