Author Topic: Lancaster Rehab - Attempted Reclamation and Rescue of an Old Project Gone Wrong  (Read 25648 times)

Offline Curtis

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This project was started in 2010, then abandoned and stuck in the "corner of shame" in 2011 after I attended my first stocking class at the NMLRA Gunsmithing seminar.  It began life as a Tip Curtis precarve and was intended to be my personal squirrel gun, however the build was badly botched and for years I thought the stock was a total loss, and only the parts could be salvaged.

Some of you that have been around here for a while may remember me posting progress pics and asking numerous questions back when...  I received an abundance of great advice however didn't have enough understanding of how to properly implement much of the advice, and I severely lacked an understanding of architecture.  As the years went by I was still lacking a proper squirrel gun, and from time to time I would pick up the rifle and wonder if it could be salvaged.

Here's a couple photos of my first misguided attempt at relief carving - not only was the carving non traditional and poorly executed, but the rifle was far from ready to be carved on.  Also notice some chip-outs along the tang that were "repaired" with acraglass.  Yuck!  :o





After some critique I attempted to make the tang carving resemble an Acanthus leaf.  Perhaps a slight improvement, perhaps not.  ::)   Also notice the relief carving and lock panels are cut too deep.





Besides poorly executed carving, improperly shaped and oversized lock panels I had poorly shaped upper and lower forestocks, an oversize badly fitted commercial muzzle cap,  a nasty oversize cheekpiece, poorly inlet ramrod thimbles and too many other issues to mention.  So one day a couple of weeks I decided to see what I could do to salvage the poor girl.  The first thing I did was to rasp off all that nasty, overly deep carving and reshape the lock panels.  Yes, there was enough extra wood that I was able to remove all that carving and do nothing less than improve the architecture of the wrist and lock panel area.  I also reshaped the forestocks and scrapped the commercial muzzle cap, and filed some metal off the top of the tang.  Here it is after all the rasping and filing:







When I started this gun I had no idea that I could change the size and shape of the tang, so I inlet the tang as it came from the factory, with the exception of a bit of filed draft.  IMHO the tang was too long and I wasn't thrilled with the shape, so a little modification was in order.   8)









Oops!  Houston, we have a problem....   :-[



The answer to that problem is a plug.  A round, football-shaped or irregular patch is much easier to fool the eye with than a rectangular one.  Here I will use a technique similar to what I might do for wood replacement on a restoration.  Notice the plug is not only rounded but also tapered with a slight draft.  The wood must be carefully selected and cut so the grain direction and structure mimics the grain of the stock at the point of application.  I find it helpful to mark some alignment points on the patch as well as the stock.



For me, it works best to treat a patch like it was an inlay, with a bit of an exception.  Here I scribe around the patch piece and begin to inlet it. 








Here is the main exception - I use carbon paper to check the fit instead of inletting black or smoke and carefully file away the marks left on the patch, instead of cutting in the inlet.  If done properly you will get a very good fit.









Time for a little glue:







I let the glue set overnight, then rasped the patch down and re-inlet the tang.

















The patch would likely blend well after staining, however I will be doing some relief carving on the gun and can use the carving to my advantage in camoflaging the repair.  Here are a couple of rough ideas how that could be done.  I'll decide what will actually be carved later and will try to post some updates.







Thanks for looking,
Curtis
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 06:43:01 AM by Curtis »
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline elk killer

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Curtis, that's a great job, your work is always inspiring 
only flintlocks remain interesting..

Offline SingleMalt

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Interesting.  I'm looking forward to the rest of the project.
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Offline yip

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 great job!! wish you lived close by..........yip

Offline PPatch

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Excellent repair work Curtis and your future carving should cover the repair completely. In my opinion your post should be added to our tutorial section. The only thing I would have done a bit differently would be to have stained inside that inlet hole and the bottom and sides of the replacement wood before gluing it in.

dave
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Offline BOB HILL

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Thanks for posting this, Curtis. This is beautifully explained and should be very helpful to many. Staining before glueing is only thing I would have added, also.    Bob
South Carolina Lowcountry

Offline Mike Brooks

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So far I like the before more than the after...I'll wait till you get your carving done for a final say.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

n stephenson

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Curtis, I like your nice clean work ,Very nice!   Nate

Offline oldtravler61

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  Curtis thanks for the tip...! Once again I learn something on here...Oldtravler

Offline Justin

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Thanks for sharing.

Can you elaborate more on your original mistakes? You mention issues with "architecture" and carving too early but what exactly do you mean by that? What I am hearing is that you should have waited to carve until you had refined the shape of the stock.

From the videos and instructions I have, they say to wait until the gun is completely together and final sanded to do any carving.

I'm a new builder and want to try to learn from your mistakes so I'm glad you shared.

Offline Curtis

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Thanks guys for all your comments! 

Justin, in this case my major problems with the architecture were the results of not understanding lock panel geometry, not removing enough wood in that area, leaving the tang too long and getting way ahead of myself by attempting to do the decorative carving before the stock was properly shaped.  Also of note even though this was a pre-carve, I didn't do enough work on the cheek piece and the forestock was pretty much just "rounded" and not given any "V" shape, partially because I was trying to match up with a cast commercial nose cap that was way to thick and not properly shape for this the rifle.  I don't have any old pics of the upper forestock but here is an example of what the cheek looked like.  No way was I anywhere close to drawing for decorative carving.  The carving would have been wrong for this style of rifle as well.



Me trying to carve lock panels that are NOT ready for it, BAD!!  The panels should be shaped with a rasp and file to a gently curing rise, for one thing here....  and lots more wood removed.



It really helps to study some original guns, and ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS!  If you don't understand the answers, ask in another way.  The only stupid question is the one left un-asked.   And then do your best to follow advice.   ;)  And try not to get frustrated!

I am proudly showing these embarrassing  :-[ photos to try and help anyone who may be just starting out.....

Curtis
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 06:44:43 AM by Curtis »
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Jeff Stewart

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Thanks, Curtis.  Appreciate you sharing.
Jeff

Offline Jim Kibler

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So far I like the before more than the after...I'll wait till you get your carving done for a final say.

Wow!  Not me by a long shot.  Then again, there's no accounting for taste!

Offline Mike Brooks

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So far I like the before more than the after...I'll wait till you get your carving done for a final say.

Wow!  Not me by a long shot.  Then again, there's no accounting for taste!
I think you just like disagreeing with me. ;)
 I'll clarify. I like the carving in the top most picture that is more or less flat, it could be better but it isn't bad. I dislike that same carving after it has been "sculpted". The rear part of the lock panels and carving looked fine to me as well, the front part is/was scary and seems to be due to be fixed.
 I thought the flat backed tang was fine. The current thumb nail shaped finial is well executed but the tang screw is way too far back now. Aesthetically, the tang screw would look better probably 1/4" to 3/8" forward of where it currently is.
 The patch is rather clever and well done. The proposed tang carving is well thought out but needs a bit of work on the sweeps in the curves, I don't know if that is a final draw or not. Anyway, this is NOT a slam, just what I personally think. Overall it appears to be well executed work.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Curtis

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...The proposed tang carving is well thought out but needs a bit of work on the sweeps in the curves, I don't know if that is a final draw or not. Anyway, this is NOT a slam, just what I personally think. Overall it appears to be well executed work.

Not to worry Mike, the tang drawings pictured were just some doodling to get ideas.  Of course that doesn't necessary mean the actual carving will be an improvement or suit your taste!  ;) I always appreciate your honesty, sense of humor and the fact that you say what you really think.  I'll probably put more carving this rifle on this rifle than it really needs, but much like you said a while back in another post, it will give me something to look at while I'm sitting on a log wondering where the squirrels are.

I haven't decided whether I want to mess with welding or plugging the tang and trigger bar, plugging the hole in the stock and moving the tang bolt.  Though that process would be fun to document... There are a few other self-made problems on this gun that IMHO aren't worth the effort to fix, but it will at least suffice as a beater rifle for plugging them there squirrels.

Curtis
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Curtis

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Here is a photo of what the cheekside looks like after working it over, hopefully an improvement from the previous cheek photo.  I also changed up the design for the decorative carving a bit.



Just beginning to stab in the carving with a couple different "roll stabbing" tools.





I have often chased molding lines with a triangular file to help make them more uniform.  I had a couple of spots where it didn't suit to use a long file so I heated this one up with a torch and bent it a bit - a custom tool in 45 seconds!  Worked great for the corresponding notch on the buttplate too.





Deer season starts in the morning here in Missouri, so I won't have much to post for a while unless the hunting is either really good or really bad!

Thanks for looking,
Curtis
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 06:46:52 AM by Curtis »
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline yip

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 Curtis; talk about making a silk purse out of a sows ear!!

Offline FALout

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The grain match of that plug matched very well.  I've had to do that lots of times (just not on rifles) and when sanding flush, the grain almost always is off some.  Which the carving your planning, it won't be noticeable.  Looking forward to seeing this finished.
Bob

Offline Mike Brooks

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...The proposed tang carving is well thought out but needs a bit of work on the sweeps in the curves, I don't know if that is a final draw or not. Anyway, this is NOT a slam, just what I personally think. Overall it appears to be well executed work.

Not to worry Mike, the tang drawings pictured were just some doodling to get ideas.  Of course that doesn't necessary mean the actual carving will be an improvement or suit your taste!  ;) I always appreciate your honesty, sense of humor and the fact that you say what you really think.  I'll probably put more carving this rifle on this rifle than it really needs, but much like you said a while back in another post, it will give me something to look at while I'm sitting on a log wondering where the squirrels are.

I haven't decided whether I want to mess with welding or plugging the tang and trigger bar, plugging the hole in the stock and moving the tang bolt.  Though that process would be fun to document... There are a few other self-made problems on this gun that IMHO aren't worth the effort to fix, but it will at least suffice as a beater rifle for plugging them there squirrels.

Curtis
I wasn't pick on you alt all, I hope you understand that. Very often you get stuck putting the tang bolt in the only place where it will work, this may be one of those cases, don't worry about it. Your cheek side looks great, the carving design looks very good, will be fun to see how it all turns out. You might take a closer look at the shape of the patch box cover. ;)
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

S99VG

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Beautiful.  Sometimes I think half of any project is in hiding your corrections.

Offline Curtis

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Mike, didn't at all take it as pickin' on me.  Actually for some stupid reason I kinda like challenges like relocating the tang bolt would be.  Not the sharpest knife in the drawer sometimes, if you know what I mean.   ;)  On the other hand, I would be interested on your thoughts on the patchbox lid....  I seem to struggle with getting those right.  I could really benefit by seeing more original wood boxes in person.

Curtis
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Mike Brooks

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Here, have a looky at Kibler's work. He does box covers real well.  It's the curve over the top you're struggling with.
https://www.jimkibler.net/sample-of-work.html
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Curtis,

Very good of you to put this up, as not everyone likes the world to see where they screwed up!...And potential fixes. 
(In the real world, I think we all screw up, but some manage to hide it quite well. :-) )
For your original problem, I may have tried putting the tang on the anvil and spreading it a bit.  Can't tell for sure if this would have worked in this case though.
A shade more flare Might have worked....

All the best,
Richard.

Offline Curtis

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Thanks for the idea and the link Mike,  I never thought of looking there for patchboxes.  That Kibler fella does nice work!!!

Pukka,  Spreading the tang would have worked just dandy for making it wider and getting rid of the gap left by the chip-out.  IF I hadn't wanted to make it shorter it would have been a good solution.

Curtis
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Curtis

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Shot a doe Saturday with my flintlock hunting gun, the first rifle I ever built!  It is now resting in it's new home, the deep freeze.

Continuing on with the carving....  I move to smaller tools as the radius of the c-scroll gets tighter.



After getting the stabbing done I start lowering the background, and chasing some incised lines with a v-parting tool.  I often stab a curved line before using the v-parting tool, it seems to make it easier to stay on course.







This is a crank necked chisel that I believe was made by Dru Hedgecock.  It was one of the first chisels I ever purchased, but I almost never really used it until just now.  I re-ground the edge extremely sharp, then ground the sides so it is a bit fish tailed to help prevent the sides from bunging up the edges of my carving - hopefully you can see the slight fishtail in the photos.  The wood on this stock is very chippy and I needed something extremely sharp to shave it cleanly.  It works great now and I think the chisel will get used a lot in the future.







The final pic, where I left off this afternoon.  It still needs a fair amount of cleanup, and obviously I ain't no Jim Kibler when it comes to carving, but it should look halfway decent after finishing the stock.  Better than how it started out anyways! :)



Thanks for looking,
Curtis
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 06:49:15 AM by Curtis »
Curtis Allinson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing